Klh 17

Paratima · Nov 25, 2008

In the four days since the previous post, no one has come forward with any specifics. I sifted through a bunch of older threads and the only consensus I can come up with is that everyone with an opinion seems to think that it's easy to over-apply whatever they're using. One thin coat seems to be the trick. That's what I did & it seems to be OK. Didn't notice any deleterious effects, but then, I'm just checking with an old, used pair of ears (although I am the original owner), not a fancy RTA. :tongue:

Zilch · Nov 25, 2008

Paratima said:
In the four days since the previous post, no one has come forward with any specifics.

I'm going with 50/50 by volume thinned using water: Crystal Geyser Alpine Spring Water by CG Roxane, bottled at the source "Near Mount Shasta." :tongue:

The Goldwood is working, ported, BTW. There's gonna be a wrap here soon.... :yes:

Paratima · Nov 25, 2008

So, is it gonna be the Goldwood, for sure? If so, I'll go ahead and order 'em. Getting set to route out the tweeter holes for the Dayton H07E's, probably Thursday, after the turkey. Ready to Lock & Load.

Zilch · Nov 25, 2008

It's not for sure 'til I arrive at something definitive regarding the performance of the re-doped original woofers.

Goldwood requires removal of some of the inner ring in the woofer hole, and cutting in a pair of 1.5" ducts, 8.5" long.

The Goldwood magnet is large, and the fit is tight, but it'll all go. The ducts have an elbow in them because the cab is so shallow. Aiming them down tunes the cab lower; I have no clue why.... :dunno:

secondslc · Nov 25, 2008

Paratima said:
Yes, but how? Straight out of the bottle? Diluted with 2 parts gin? Need details.

I take my glue straight

.

Two coats, with an artists brush. Vewwy scientific!

Paratima · Nov 25, 2008

secondslc said:
I take my glue straight .

Tanks! :thmbsp:
Seems as how some thin it, some don't. Some use 2 coats, some just 1. Who knows?

Zilch · Nov 26, 2008

Doping:

Paratima · Nov 26, 2008

I think somebody's trying to tell us something here. :sadwave:

Zilch · Nov 26, 2008

Paratima said:
I think somebody's trying to tell us something here. :sadwave:

Here it is with thinner, 1-pixel lines, more like what I see on the screen, so you may better discern the detail.

After the Aleene's drying overnight, it has climbed to F6 = 60.6 Hz (Ax, red cursor). To be fair, that's measured from the peak, (Bx, green cursor,) but it'd certainly be a stretch to call F6, the effective limit of "usable" bass, at 50 Hz, and in any case, there's clearly nobody home below 40 Hz, if we can even hear that at all.

These KLH-17s may have had good bass when they were new, but they do not now, they did not require re-doping, which only made them worse, based upon my measurements of two pair now, and we need to rethink some common assumptions here.

There are also broader implications, which you apparently already appreciate, and I'm willing to discuss those, but I'll leave it at that for now. It'd be good if someone else replicated this study to confirm these findings.... :yes:

Edit: 12 hours later, it's still F6 = 60.6 Hz. I'm calling them "stable."

Paratima · Nov 27, 2008

Zilch said:
It'd be good if someone else replicated this study to confirm these findings.... :yes:

Don't think I can be much help there. All I've got is WT3, which is like looking at it with binoculars from across the street, compared with your RTA, looking at it with a microscope. For what it's worth, however...

I also have a yardstick, a meterstick, a DVM, an incident-light meter and a Fedex-certified shipping scale (+/- .5 oz.) here. If there's any other measurements you need, don't hesitate to ask. :stupid:

Zilch · Nov 27, 2008

I was thinkin' last night it could be done with a R/S SPL meter ($50, EVERY audio enthusiast should have one,) and a tone disc or file from the 'net.

Use the dBC scale, with the mic 1/4" - 1/2" from the woofer dome. You don't have to play the tones very loud at that distance.

DbC rolls off a bit at the low end, as I recall, but you'll certainly see where bass has left the building.... :yes:

Paratima · Nov 27, 2008

Back to the Shack. Says online that it's an online-order / ship-to-store item. I'll check locally in the morning, just to be sure. And then what? Need a pink noise generator, I suppose. Will Pink Floyd DSOTM work? I'll see what I can find.

You're sure the incident light meter wouldn't help? It's a nice Sekonic L-358 with remote flash triggering. Sure makes flash photography a snap!
(Sorry, photographer humor. Not so good, huh?)

RayW · Nov 27, 2008

Zilch said:
DbC rolls off a bit at the low end, as I recall, but you'll certainly see where bass has left the building.... :yes:

IIRC, the C weighting curve is down 3dB at 31Hz but it's been a while since I worked with it.

Ray

RayW · Nov 27, 2008

Paratima said:
And then what? Need a pink noise generator, I suppose.

For FR curve approximation you'll need discrete tones or band limited warble tones. You can get test discs for this at Old Colony Sound or create your own with something like Cooledit.

Ray

Zilch · Nov 27, 2008

Paratima said:
Need a pink noise generator, I suppose.

Nope, sine wave tones.

There's a link to downloadable tone files somewhere in this forum.

When you find it, link it here, please, for the benefit of others.

Play the tone, take a reading, next tone, etc., and plot the results.... :yes:

Urizen · Nov 27, 2008

Here's a chart:

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k199/Urizen_2006/testtonechart.jpg

And here are some tones:

http://www.realmofexcursion.com/downloads.htm

WARNING! Use care with these tones. If used improperly, some may cause system damage.

Paratima · Nov 27, 2008

You sure are making me work!

Found 2 links in 1 post from last July.

http://www.realmofexcursion.com/downloads.htm

and

http://binkster.net/extras.shtml#cd

The first is a humongous list of individual files. Gack!

The second is a humongous list of individual files PLUS the whole list collected together for burning a CD!

Guess which one I'm gonna go for... :yes:

Off now to my cousin's for Thanksgiving dinner. I'll report something tomorrow. Happy Thanksgiving! :beerchug:

(Thanks, Urizen. Didn't see your post while making mine. Don't worry; I'll be careful.)

Zilch · Nov 27, 2008

UT, oh.

We're gonna have speakergeek FUN now! :banana:

[This better work.... :tongue: ]

Zilch · Nov 28, 2008

Goldwood GW-10PC/8 has a rising response in this alignment, and D220Ti on the PE H07E waveguide requires more HF compensation than is provided by the standard E'Wave crossover. These two combine to confer a decidedly (~5 dB) "forward" upper midrange with rolled-off highs and lows.

Phase looks good through the crossover region, (summing well,) and they sound quite nice, so it's time to break out the ZilchNutz and tweak the filters. :thmbsp:

Note: Now that they are front and center again, I notice that the ducts are 1.5" diameter, not 2". I corrected that in Post #64, above.

BmWr75 · Nov 28, 2008

Hello Zilch,

I picked up a pair of KLH Twentys recently (same dimensions as Seventeens, I think). Thinking they need to be Zilchensteined. Anxiously awaiting the conclusions of this experiment gone awry.......need to help PE make a profit during this holiday season. :stupid:

BmWr75

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