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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Zilch said:
I'm aware of only one large-format driver that'll "push" to play the VHF, 2452H-SL.

Well, 476Be and Mg, apparently, also, but they're unobtanium.

Welcome back Jack! You have been missed here; we look forward to your report of the completion of your E'Wave HT.

Somebody send me a pair, and I'll work out the HF comp.... :thmbsp:
Click to expand...

Due to cost considerations, the 2452 is basically unobtainium for me as well!
I see that BMS and B&C make reasonably priced larger format drivers. I will probably stick to 1 inch formats for now and try the B&C DE 250, especially now that you are going to work out compensation for it.

As to the Charge Coupled E'wave crossover, it is performing well. It seems to be an improvement in clarity across the board. Seems to be more detail on well recorded Cymbals, drum whacks, as well as reverberation on vocals. The original crossover was sounding awfully good, I'll be able to better judge its
effect in a couple of weeks when I change back to the original. For now, its seem to have improved bass, mids, as well as highs. Occasional splashiness so far is attributed to the recording, This seem to really be worth trying, really has the Selenium singing with more clarity and smoothness.

Russellc
 
Hi 900ss, does your name refer to the ducati???

For anyone, I am trying to figure out what crossover to use the problem is I don't know anything about my woofer. They are in an American Monitor 10. How do I determine the sensitivity so I can build the right XO. Cheers.
 
djnagle said:
Hi 900ss, does your name refer to the ducati???

For anyone, I am trying to figure out what crossover to use the problem is I don't know anything about my woofer. They are in an American Monitor 10. How do I determine the sensitivity so I can build the right XO. Cheers.
Click to expand...

Dennis;
I have another set of the inductors for the basic crossover, and of course all the caps and resistors on Earth. Let me know if you need anything. Wish I'd have thought of this when you were over here for those foam surrounds.
BTW, try out the modded PS1 CD player yet?
 
Thanks B for the offer. I have been working on my daughter's car since I was over. I am almost done and will hook up the PS1 this afternoon. Cheers.
 
djnagle said:
Thanks B for the offer. I have been working on my daughter's car since I was over. I am almost done and will hook up the PS1 this afternoon. Cheers.
Click to expand...

George F. suggested a 'Classic AK DIY Econo-System' consisting of a pair of vintage speakers given the EconoWave treatment, a modded Sony Playstation 1 and one of Kegger's sweep tube amps. For those needing more power on the cheap I'd suggest a Gainclone style chip amp.
I've listened to all of those parts together before I sent my chip amp and modded PS1 out on perpetual loan. The combination sounds absurdly good and except for the cost of the Econowave parts, might as well be free.

Maybe this should be a demo for the next AK Fest: "Just How Good It Can Be On The Cheap"
 
De 250-8:

Courtesy member 900ss:

attachment.php

http://www.bcspeakers.com/PDF/PRD/DE250.pdf
 

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That was fast. The compensation looks pretty decent, nice response above 4k. Some work on the high pass would probably help things below 4k. Nice and consistent response, which is nice to see.
 
dnewma04 said:
That was fast. The compensation looks pretty decent, nice response above 4k. Some work on the high pass would probably help things below 4k. Nice and consistent response, which is nice to see.
Click to expand...
I'm gonna listen first. I'm pretty sure I won't miss anything above 16.5 kHz. These play a bit lower than Seleniums.

Looks like the throat adapter's making a notch at the low end, similar to what occurs w/D220Ti:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2523572#post2523572

I told 900ss that if he didn't hear from me for 30 days.... ;)
 
djnagle said:
Hi 900ss, does your name refer to the ducati???

For anyone, I am trying to figure out what crossover to use the problem is I don't know anything about my woofer. They are in an American Monitor 10. How do I determine the sensitivity so I can build the right XO. Cheers.
Click to expand...

Yep - The 96 SS SP with CR fairings that sits in my garage way too much.
 
dnewma04 said:
That was fast. The compensation looks pretty decent, nice response above 4k. Some work on the high pass would probably help things below 4k. Nice and consistent response, which is nice to see.
Click to expand...

Yes it was fast. Zilch is master - within 45 minute he had three compression driver measured, gave a detailed explanation of the set up, coached me on how to measure response for woofers and talked me out of my DE 250s for a week. My thought is at that pace, the compensation will probably be done today. Hopefully there will be opportunity for extensive listening tests at Zilch Lab. :thmbsp:
 
900ss said:
Yes it was fast. Zilch is master - within 45 minute he had three compression driver measured, gave a detailed explanation of the set up, coached me on how to measure response for woofers and talked me out of my DE 250s for a week. My thought is at that pace, the compensation will probably be done today. Hopefully there will be opportunity for extensive listening tests at Zilch Lab. :thmbsp:
Click to expand...

:lurk:

Russellc
 
900ss said:
Hopefully there will be opportunity for extensive listening tests at Zilch Lab. :thmbsp:
Click to expand...

I've got my Econo-Waveguide bass bins set up here at the office in downtown SF.

miniviscount.jpg


You're welcome to come have a listen after we close for business sometime later this week.
 
tubino said:
I'm no expert either, but you can read why Greg Timbers thought it made sense:

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1993-k2-s5500/page10.jpg

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1993-k2-s5500/page11.jpg

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1993-k2-s5500/page12.jpg

EDIT: OH! and thanks for the offer to share speaker parts etc. I'll be in touch!
Click to expand...

Very nice read. One of the earlier posts seems to hit what I have been noticing, more detail and clarity on the "decay" of sounds. If anyone has sufficient parts laying around, throw one together and see if I'm imagining this improvement or not. I am becoming certain there is something really good going on here with E'wave and this CC crossover.

While CC represents a greater expense to build, especially with some of the more complex JBL crossovers, this one has a fairly low parts count and the largest cap is 20 mfd. (after being "doubled") The daytons are reasonable for this endeavor, anyone care to give it a whirl, If I really didnt think it was noticeable, I wouldnt ask. I think whoever tries it will be pleasantly surprised.

Russellc
 
Zilch said:
Well, I'm gonna have to set it up again and retest with dummy loads and sinewave input. I believe I understand where Rob and I disagree, and that relates to whether the discharge path is the 2.2 meg or the source and/or load impedance. In the meantime, there's this, which may be read as saying Greg Timbers agrees with Rob:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=230425#post230425
Click to expand...

He also states he has never seen a capacitor, including ultra high end teflons, that didnt improve. Ouch, that (teflon) must have been an expensive experiment!

Russellc
 
Vaughn said:
That does look like a nice driver...

I am not much of a pioneer when it comes to these things, I prefer to use something that is well proven. Of course it looks like there is a lot of good feedback for these B&C drivers.

I guess what I really love(as far as sound goes) is the clean, clear and effortless presentation. I think the Seleniums are excellent performers, but of course with a severe and chronic case of "audiophilia nervosa" I have to keep searching for the next best thing. I can't help but think a larger diaphragm compression driver would just sound a lot more effortless at a given volume.

The other component is that I have decided to run everything off of one amp instead of biamping. The 2A3 amp I had on the Seleniums previously went a long way towards ameliorating their slight tendency towards stridency. In an effort towards simplicity(HA!) I am running my sources directly into my Behringer A500, and running the E-waves full range from it. This really gives a squeaky clean and very extended sound but I think one of the mylar type diaphragm compression drivers might work better with solid state amplification.

I suppose I could play with caps in the crossover, maybe try some paper in oil types as a sort of tonal adjustment. Something about that bothers me though.
Click to expand...

Wayne over at the Pi speaker forum uses this driver as a step up from the Eminence 2002.

Russellc
 
Vaughn said:
That does look like a nice driver...

I am not much of a pioneer when it comes to these things, I prefer to use something that is well proven. Of course it looks like there is a lot of good feedback for these B&C drivers.

I guess what I really love(as far as sound goes) is the clean, clear and effortless presentation. I think the Seleniums are excellent performers, but of course with a severe and chronic case of "audiophilia nervosa" I have to keep searching for the next best thing. I can't help but think a larger diaphragm compression driver would just sound a lot more effortless at a given volume.

The other component is that I have decided to run everything off of one amp instead of biamping. The 2A3 amp I had on the Seleniums previously went a long way towards ameliorating their slight tendency towards stridency. In an effort towards simplicity(HA!) I am running my sources directly into my Behringer A500, and running the E-waves full range from it. This really gives a squeaky clean and very extended sound but I think one of the mylar type diaphragm compression drivers might work better with solid state amplification.

I suppose I could play with caps in the crossover, maybe try some paper in oil types as a sort of tonal adjustment. Something about that bothers me though.
Click to expand...

Do a CC version, I am really starting to like this thing and it would be nice to hear what another thought of its performance.

Russellc
 
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