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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Hi folks,
I am certain that the answer is somewhere in the several hundred pages of this thread, and this is probably a FAQ, but...

For a newcomer, can someone please explain how it is that a speaker system with a low pass section of 1.2 khz and a high pass section of 3 khz does not have a big dip at about 2.1 khz? Obviously, I'm missing something.
 
Yep, you missed something. The electrical crossover points are where you say, but the acoustic crossovers are different because of the driver's frequency response. The selenium has a rising response below 3khz, setting the crossover point there allowed Jack and Zilch to get an acoustic rolloff near 1.6khz, I believe.
 
Hi folks,
I am certain that the answer is somewhere in the several hundred pages of this thread, and this is probably a FAQ, but...

For a newcomer, can someone please explain how it is that a speaker system with a low pass section of 1.2 khz and a high pass section of 3 khz does not have a big dip at about 2.1 khz? Obviously, I'm missing something.

The answer is in the first few pages, where the crossover was developed. The reason the high pass is set at 3.5 KHz is to lower the big bump in the output of the D220Ti HF driver at about 2 KHz. Read it, and you should understand.
 
I'm guessing that the 3.5 kHz electrical crossover point when applied to the B&C DE250 (and measured by Zilch) is too high for that driver and is why we see a dip in those plots. It may need to cross much lower to get a smoother response.

Or, am I way out in left field (again)?
 
I'm guessing that the 3.5 kHz electrical crossover point when applied to the B&C DE250 (and measured by Zilch) is too high for that driver and is why we see a dip in those plots. It may need to cross much lower to get a smoother response.

Or, am I way out in left field (again)?

You are probably correct. If the B&C doesn't have the same rise at around 2 KHz, the 3.5 KHz hi pass will not yield the same response with the B&C driver.
 
BMS Better Adapter option? screw thread to 1 3/8" for 1" driver flange

Acouple of weeks ago I noticed an other adapter made by BMS in a euro ebay store. I tried contacting USSpeaker who handles some of the product line in the US but did not hear back from them via their web contact request...Any body know where else to source these to get to Zilch for analysis?:scratch2:

http://cgi.ebay.com/BMS-Adapter-scr...21997QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
 
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I tried contacting USSpeaker who handles some of the product line in the US but did not hear back from them via their web contact request...

Just keep calling and eventually you'll get through. Once on the phone, he will recall receiving your email. Delivery of my BMS drivers was prompt.
 
I just sent Grumpy a PM asking him to advise...I know the rules say you cant sell things, and while Wayne1 isnt, he is "procuring" ...help us Grumpy!

Russellc

Grumpy has contacted me concerning the group buy. since no one is profitting, he is cool with it, but said he would contact me shortly about where to place it forum wise.:thmbsp:

Russellc
 
Does anyone know where I can get a pair of D220Ti? Looks like every source is out until the end of the month. I've also been waiting awhile now for my waveguides to arrive (it's over 2 weeks now) but I was hoping to have some drivers for them when they get here.

Is there a drop in replacement CD that will work equally as well with the <95dB crossovers? The woofer I'm mating them with is the 12" Dayton Classic in a ~4.5cuft rear ported enclosure (2 - 3" ports, 4.5" long).

Great thread fun build!
 
Does anyone know where I can get a pair of D220Ti? Looks like every source is out until the end of the month. I've also been waiting awhile now for my waveguides to arrive (it's over 2 weeks now) but I was hoping to have some drivers for them when they get here.

Is there a drop in replacement CD that will work equally as well with the <95dB crossovers? The woofer I'm mating them with is the 12" Dayton Classic in a ~4.5cuft rear ported enclosure (2 - 3" ports, 4.5" long).

Great thread fun build!

The Parts Express web page states 'In Stock'. Did they tell you they were out of them?

<EDIT>

I guess it's the 16 Ohm that's in stock at PE
 
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This seems like a good time to ask this. What are the physical and electrical differences that account for the differences in performance between the Selenium 220 and 210?

I can't find a data sheet on the 210 since it's gone obsolete.

<EDIT>

Specs on the 210:

http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/264-235.pdf

and you can kind of get to the 220 spec sheet (in Portuguese) from here:

http://www.e21.com.br/selenium/forc...drivers/Titanio/D220Ti -Rev.00-03-07 Port.pdf

and here in English:

http://www.seleniumloudspeakers.com/site2004/catalogo/pdf/D220Ti.pdf

<EDIT SOME MORE>

It looks like the 210's voice coil is larger and probably heavier. On the FR charts the 220 has about a 4db higher output above 10K.

The 220 also has slightly higher sensitivity overall. The 210 was rated to go down to 800 hz versus the 1000 hz for the 220.
 
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Is there a drop in replacement CD that will work equally as well with the <95dB crossovers? The woofer I'm mating them with is the 12" Dayton Classic in a ~4.5cuft rear ported enclosure (2 - 3" ports, 4.5" long).

Great thread fun build!

The Selenium D210Ti is a drop in replacement for the D220Ti, is a bit cheaper, and sounds essentially the same. Some may be available from AK members stock, but they have been discontinued. Many EconoWaves have been built using them.

As far as I know, that is the only "drop in" replacement for the D220Ti.
 
I'm going to try some of those DE250s withmy LE14as and Ewave crossover. That way I can use the Seleniums for my second set of Ewaves :)

Looking at the crossover, tweaking C1 up a bit might help with the dip at 2 Khz but I doubt I will hear the difference.
 
D210Ti appeared on the back page of the PE flyer effective through 2/28/09 at $29.88, Part# 264-235.

Give them a call and see if there are any still available.

Great thread fun build!

We're certainly interested in how the DC 12" works for E'Wave, so be sure to post your report and some pics of the project here when completed.... :yes:
 
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This might be a sore point for some...but I would be interested in the DE250s as a replacement for my Altec Valencia 846Bs. The BMS4552ND mentioned previously is way more than I want to spend....
 
This looks to be identical to the 220, using the same diaphragm but different magnet (2dB more output with 2.83V input)...

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-274

From what I was able to dig up, the 210 came first and was replaced by the 220. I bought a pair of the 220 - the back cover is a plastic molding while the D2500 looks to have a cast alloy back, as well as a copper shorting ring on the pole piece (lowered distortion at high freqs). BUT, at $78 it looks like the $100 B&C 'group buy' driver might be a better deal.

I have no complaints about the 220 - no harshness in the highs that I can hear. Of course I've never heard any other modern compression driver either (only old Altec stuff at a friends house..).
 
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Creative variation or bastardization?

Not sure if this qualifies for EWG project status, but here's what I did:

Took a pair of baffles I made a long time ago, mostly an excuse to learn to use a plunge router and circle jig. 3/4" MDF. Located a pair of high Qts 12" drivers (Stromberg-Carlson Slimline). Cut rectangles immediately above 12" hole to mount JBL wave guide. Results:

487243429_MHneS-S.jpg


X2

487243395_QbtXh-L.jpg


Mounted waveguide and 12" drivers. Mounted Altec 902 drivers to adaptor flanges (too lazy to pull B&C DE250 off of Martinelli horns) and screwed to waveguide. Pushed them in place, roughly, in front of JBL cabs and Martinelli horns. It looked like this:

487243381_nBy59-M.jpg


X2

487243450_SVTjW-L.jpg


Hooked up each driver to the crossover output I was using for my pseudo-4-Pi combo of JBL 2226 and HF horn.

477575315_yPJrH-S.jpg
477735397_gKjLL-S.jpg


Not surprisingly, the HF needed a LOT of attenuation to match the OB 12" (8 o'clock vs. 12:30 to match the 97db JBL 2226). Also needed more from the amp, not surprisingly. But with a little bass boost, it sounded pretty darn good! The LF was respectable, and probably would be slightly better with the baffles positioned with the edges against walls in a corner, and maybe with a stiffener/support member. Compared to most speaker systems, it is pleasingly free of the boxy colorations, of course.

For more low end, there is room under the 12" to add a high Qts 15", e.g. one of the console or organ drivers visible on the floor in one of the photos. That sort of fits with the idea of doing this on the cheap with the kind of drivers you can pick up endlessly for nothing.

Or I could recycle these by cutting the baffles into rectangles for use in a box... But as-is, these are kind of interesting eye-openers. With a subwoofer, I think a lot of people would find the sound impressive.
 
This page summarizes the Selenium compression drivers.
The 2500 and the 220 are not the same, though they are similar.

http://www.seleniumloudspeakers.com/

I guess you can't get there directly, but click on PRO and TITANIUM COMPRESSION DRIVERS. They're all there, including 210.
BEWARE!! Loud and obnoxious music on that page!!!!
 
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