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Hpm-Econo Redo, Aka Kpm-10.0

Here's the cab rear photo showing the (bit rough) binding posts. They are insulated from the plate by plastic strips. Jumpers are made from speaker wire.

dsc0178oc5.jpg


Interesting isn't it, that although the systems are different, there seems to be parallel experiences with these speakers. Be great to read other KMP-100 builders' impressions when they finish.
I've studied the foam posts- looks a lot like intake filter foam. I'll dredge the hardware stores and see what they have in the power tool section.
Thanks for the help.
 
Nice, thank you for the pic, the binding posts look great, I like the grey pvc as well.
(You may want to PM Dnewman04 with advice on the foam)

Yah there will be at least one more in the thread building KPM 10.0 on up speakers. :)
 
Some more thoughts on KEGZILA- sorry, bit of a ramble.
Since KEGZILA I's conception, I thought I'd take the opportunity to play with the notion of 'sonic memory' and perception of speaker performance.
Goal: to become as objective as possible when critically listening to new speakers.
I decided there are two main factors- the first is that exclusive audition of the speakers is necessary to become accustomed to their sound. I was thinking that the organic reception, neural interpretation and formation of the sonic memory (and how it is subsequently recalled) is influenced by so many extraneous factors that it must take a 'substantial' amount of exposure to the speakers for a listener to subconciously create a median, or overall impression of the sound. Extraneous factors might include mood, tiredness, state of relaxation, sobriety (etc.), expectations of source and equipment performance. So, I've been keeping notes, an open mind and giving the speakers some time to settle in.
The second factor is the influence of previous sonic memory on current perception. When I ask myself "Do I like these speakers?" I know it's really a comparative question- "Do I like these speakers better than the XXs I've been so satisfied with?" I had little success in temporarily losing the sonic memory of the XXs in order to clear the perceptual pathway for un-biased KEGZILA I memory formation. I was hoping to gain an unconditional appreciation of the speakers for what they are; after all, they're quite different animals to the XXs.
Result: neither exclusive, longtitudinal critical listening nor a concious effort to ignore previous sonic memory fostered any more objectivity than just sitting down to a focussed listening session. Perhaps a newbie revealation, but I'm now more inclined to think that forming new speaker impressions is quite a subjective exercise. Ideas about the speakers' strengths and weaknesses hadn't changed over time and I was most surely comparing them to XXs (Yamaha NS-1000s).
So, here are the latest, (relative) impressions: Carol King's Greatest Hits on CD- low volume, easy to listen to, but wasn't particularly moved. Vocals didn't shine through as they have before. Next, Jack Johnson's Sleep Through the Static was also comparatively uninspiring, though some tracks did catch my interest more than others. On a couple of songs, I found myself thinking, and not for the first time, that the vocals on this CD had a bit of an 'edge' to them, that I felt they could be a bit 'richer'. Here's a direct comparison with the Yamahas: if I can use spatial analogies, the KEGZILA Is don't have as much forward to rear depth, but they easily fill the space in and under the floor with low frequency response. I prefer the way the KEGs project sound laterally- I enjoy their ability in extending to and beyond the walls and creating a live presence. The Yamahas have a 'richer', more 'satisfying' and smoother midrange. I'm wondering if its even relevant to pursue tweaking the KEGs to produce NS-1000-like midrange, chalk and cheese.
I'm continuing to be suprised by first experiences with very low and sub-sonic bass that I never knew existed on familiar recordings; Cowboy Junkies The Trinity Sessions bass drum stands out as an example of this. Speaking of which, I've never understood the extent to which people have praised The Trinity Sessions recording, but after experimenting a lot with seat position, I discovered wonderful imaging. Reminiscent of the Dynaco A25s, but a little bit better. Out with a new vinyl copy of The White Stripes Icky Thump- and thump it does. I once read Meg White's kick bass likened to '... a Mack truck' driving through the room- yep, a Mack pulling a long road-train. But it never got too much- there was a tightness and realistic resonance to the kick which was chest-pounding but not over-bearing. I have two systems set up where I can quickly change over the TT and compare. Icky Thump was impressive on both.
I have some different value caps coming to try in the X/O and will report on any changes. I'm hoping to influence midrange response.
 
Sounds a bit like Kegger's initial impressions of the speakers prior to tweaking the crossover and adding the foam phase plug.
 
Couple questions for yu Spectrum, (to try an better gauge what your hearing and want)

Some people think of mid warmth as recessed a bit, like east coast sound, not raised
a bit like the JBL west coast sound.

When you listen to your NS1000's where do you have the mid pot dialed in at when it
sounds best to you? Is there any setting on the NS1000 that will make them sound at
least a bit like the waves in the mid? And if so what is that setting?

Have you listend to the waves with high frequency pots turned all the way down, if so
do you still hear the "edgeyness"? If not can you try this experiment?

I also agree it can be very difficult to get the full merits or warts of a speaker with just
AB'ing them, it is better for me to listen strictly one set an try to forget what the other
sounded like, yes think of them as 2 completly different speakers an not try to think X
speaker should sound like Y. You may never get them to sounding the same, nor should
they as they are quite different in there construction so will more then likely have some
different strength's an weeknesses. Does not mean you can't tweak your DIY speaker to
sound more like what you want it to be like, but there may be only so much you can do
with there particular charactor.

Also I find extended length's of time with a certain speaker, learning to appreciate what
it sounds like then go back to different speakers can be quite eye/ear opening as well. :)
No if you just dislike the speaker altogether it won't help, but sometimes you get use to
a certain sound then listen to something else and it just doesn't sound right at first but
if you lived with it longer an become accustomed to it you "can" begin to appreciate it in
a way you first did not an now that becomes your new reference.

I am not trying to tell you the wave WILL be the speaker you should prefer, nor am I to
say the wave is a better speaker, the 2 are different and do sound different, I've heard
the NS1000 and liked quite a bit of what they did, the waves work quite well in my set
and the things they do well outway the very few things they don't do fantastic for me.

I still say the selenium needs some break in, also tweak the xover with the parts you
have coming to try an get the best sound you can get from them for you.

Give me some feedback here and I should be able to give some xover pointers to help
achieve the best for your setup. (In otherwords keep the feedback coming)

Have you tried any different amps as well? I have used 5 different amps, and they all
do sound different, some I like quite a bit more then others.
 
Spectrum77, I am still on the fence for the EWG project so have been lurking at the different threads. I forget the specific of your room but it does look like a live room in which the sound could bounce around. I have a pair of Klipsch Heresy in a pretty live room and after about 15-20 minutes of music, my ears start to hurt.

Posts like yours really put me back on the fence as, even though my high frequency hearing is shot, I just don't like agressive highs. I am leaning toward the B&C and BMS and their Mylar diaphragms (no long Econo-wave though). The BMS seems to be much harder to find.
 
I have to report that my KPM project has slowed to a snail's pace,partly due to the holiday and also I've had to move indoors to do the work due to the cold weather.Hopefully I'll soon be able to pick up the pace.
 
TnT2- yes it is a possibility that some rearrangement and/or added absorption will have a postive affect. ATM, I wouldn't consider the room overly bright.
dmax99- looking forward to reading what you hear, get back on track soon.

Couple questions for yu Spectrum, (to try an better gauge what your hearing and want)
Thanks, mate.
... mid warmth as recessed a bit, like east coast sound, not raised a bit like the JBL west coast sound.
we're on the same page, that's a useful start. Hard to choose adjectives to accurately sound, but the aspect I have always enjoyed the most on other speakers is forward, easy to listen to mids (i.e. smooth vocals).
When you listen to your NS1000's where do you have the mid pot dialed in at when it sounds best to you? Is there any setting on the NS1000 that will make them sound at least a bit like the waves in the mid? And if so what is that setting?
NS-1000 mid-pot is in the centre, neutral position. I will try some different pot settings on the Yamahas and see whether I can replicate the wave sound to any extent. Nice idea. One notable thing about the Yamahas is that I always leave the high pot at the -3 db position (reduced from 0 position) and don't usually find them too 'bright' with any source, as some others do.
Have you listend to the waves with high frequency pots turned all the way down, if so do you still hear the "edgeyness"? If not can you try this experiment?
Yes sir, I have, but not with taking notes and with no systematic approach. I will try this again using the same source.
... you can't tweak your DIY speaker to sound more like what you want it to be like, but there may be only so much you can do with there particular charactor. Also I find extended length's of time with a certain speaker, learning to appreciate what it sounds like then go back to different speakers can be quite eye/ear opening as well.
Yes, I think that was a big part of the long rant attempting to put on record my thoughts on this subject. I had hoped that I could gain an appreciation of a new pair of speakers in a relatively un-biased manner.
I still say the selenium needs some break in, also tweak the xover with the parts you have coming to try an get the best sound you can get from them for you.
That's something I should reveal- the room in the photo and of course all the gear is at my 'weekender'. I'm not listening to them everyday, so I'm sure the Seleniums are still quite new. BTW, who thinks the Selenium logo is a ripoff of the Sennheiser logo from the '70s?? Strangely, the PE parts order still hasn't arrived:thumbsdn:so I can't report on any X/O mods yet.
Give me some feedback here and I should be able to give some xover pointers to help achieve the best for your setup. Have you tried any different amps as well? I have used 5 different amps, and they all do sound different, some I like quite a bit more then others.
No worries, mate. No, I haven't tried with any other amps, but have a couple of days off so will report back with any new findings.
I would really like to be more precise in my learning and experimentation with this project- I mean I want to measure the sound. But, until I turn that little bit crazier, I'm just trying to enjoy the music the best I can!
 
OK, got the new resistors and capacitors: Jantzen 8.2 uF400V, Jantzen 12uF 400V, Jantzen 0.22uF 1200V Z-Superior, Jantzen 0.10uF of the same. I got the 0.22 and 0.10 to make up the minimum purchase total.
I'll pull the X/Os and have them external and handy. I'll go the wire nut route during experimentation.
Now, can anyone recommend a test-tone CD? I'm thinking that in addition to listening to familiar music, keeping notes on how frequencies sound with X/O changes, then how frequencies are heard with speaker placement, system comparisons, etc. may be more productive and is (of course), able to be replicated. I know that there are test tones available to be played through a computer, but the 'puda is not an option for me at the ManShun (weekender).
 
Kpm-10.0 specific X/O alterations: swapped the Dayton 15uF in the zobel for a Jantzen 12uF in one speaker, turned down the L-pads/faced the waveguides to the rear of both speakers so that the lows/mids could be compared. Did not dig the 12uF at all. 12uF out and 8.2uF in- compared again. Fuller, smoother, more balanced mids- definite improvement. Swapped the .10uF for Jantzens while the iron was hot. Added two more braces, damping and turned L1 90 deg. (just 'cos I read its the thing to do).
L-pad in centre position, waveguides back online and did some hardcore listening from Holst The Planets, Quincy Jones This is How I Feel About Jazz through to Neil Young Tonight's The Night. Again, Dynaco A25s on steriods came to mind- I'm guessing that's the imaging. Like them better on the tube gear than SS. One thing these do better than my other speakers is groove equally well at all volumes.
 
Glad to see yur gettin somewhere! Hopefully more to yur liking?

(My email notifications weren't workin) Didn't know you posted. ;)
 
Ouch!....On the AK Recycle Cabinet Law!! I have taken 2x pickup truck loads of flattened speaker boxes to the wood recycle/landfill , in the last 3 years. Parted out many-many speakers drivers on Ebay..etc.. *<8P
 
My version of the e-wave/hpm 100's are finished. They sound fantastic and I am very pleased. Thanks Kegger and Zilch and everyone else that has worked on this speaker invention/project. For less than 250 dollars, this is a very good audio investment. I will now try to desrcribe the sound ect...

I built a seperate enclosure to house the crossovers and waveguides while
unplugging the old wires inside the hpm's and drilling a 1/4'' hole in the back
and running new wires from the crossovers to the woofer leaving the hpm's
unmodified. They are now upside down with the new enclosure on top and
hooked up to my Marantz 2250b receiver.

Before with the hpm's in stock form,they sounded a little tinny at low to
normal listening levels. I had to push the loudness button or or turn up the
bass for them to "sound right" or the music was just too loud before they came
into their own. I was always messing with the L-pads and or Bass/
Treble trying to find a sound that was never to be found all the while blaming
my windows,hardwood floors and lack of room treatment.

Now with the hpm's e-waved, the sound is wonderful and pure almost as if
there are no speakers at all. Symbols,vocals,guitar slides and fiddles sound
like they are in my listening room and not washed out in the mids. The sweet
spot is practically gone now as it sounds great wherever I sit. The bass is
good and sounds about the same as before but it is the same old hpm woofer
after all. These e-waves are smooth as silk and I feel no urge to dampen or modify
them further as there is absolutely no rash or echo. I have not listened
to everything yet but if Eddie Van Halen, AC/DC or Patsy Cline turned up loud
doesnt rash my ears nothing will I dont believe. The Bass,Treble and Midrange
on my Marantz all set at 12:00 now and the L-pads on the D220TI's are set
at 11:30 and the sound is perfect and doesnt need to be changed even when
I change sources and artists.

Thanks guys, I will try to post some pictures if I can figure out how.
 
OK, got the new resistors and capacitors: Jantzen 8.2 uF400V, Jantzen 12uF 400V, Jantzen 0.22uF 1200V Z-Superior, Jantzen 0.10uF of the same. I got the 0.22 and 0.10 to make up the minimum purchase total.
I'll pull the X/Os and have them external and handy. I'll go the wire nut route during experimentation.
Now, can anyone recommend a test-tone CD? I'm thinking that in addition to listening to familiar music, keeping notes on how frequencies sound with X/O changes, then how frequencies are heard with speaker placement, system comparisons, etc. may be more productive and is (of course), able to be replicated. I know that there are test tones available to be played through a computer, but the 'puda is not an option for me at the ManShun (weekender).

I download mp3 files of the frequencies I desire plus pink and white noise samples and transfer them to my ipod. I connect using a cable with 1/8 stereo to rca plugs to the aux input on my amp.

George
 
I decided that if I do this, I was going to try charge coupling on kegger's crossover. 183.00 in crossover parts quickly put the brakes on that idea. Revising the order for standard components for now. :)
 
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