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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Russellc said:
Some have suggested plugging a port. Go to Lowe's or Home Depot and get some 3 inch test plugs from the pluming dept and try that. Myself, I didnt like the result, seemed muddier to me, less open and dynamic, but maybe that's just me!

While the 2235H definately out basses the 2225H, the 2225H has slam that is very satisfying. I also operate these speakers towed in, but back against the wall. This helps 2225H's bass output.

Russellc
Click to expand...

(cue broken record :D )

If you want a sound somewhere between the two of these, the 2234 can be a great choice. Basically, it's a 2235H without the mass ring. A little more extension than the 2225, but more efficient (and "faster" in terms of "slam") than the 2235.

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Bass Guitar enclosure goes E-Wave

I guess I'm an E-Waver, though I'm crossing over nearly an octave higher. I'm currently working the JBL 6"x6" PT Waveguide with JBL 2407H compression driver (as far as I can tell after looking at the diaphragm it's just like a BMS 4540ND) into my 3-way bass cab design (see sig), with a Eminence 3015LF woofer and 18 Sound 6ND410 midrange cone.

The PT waveguide and top-drawer compression driver definitely makes for a more spacious detailed top, and it's way more like parity FR when listening off-axis.

I'm also going to try the 18 Sound XT120 and Dayton HO7 guides eventually.
 
My first E'Wave 3-Way used 2407 on the standard waveguide as supertweeter:

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Can y'all say "Kicks ASS!" :guitar:
 
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greenboy said:
I guess I'm an E-Waver, though I'm crossing over nearly an octave higher. I'm currently working the JBL 6"x6" PT Waveguide with JBL 2407H compression driver (as far as I can tell after looking at the diaphragm it's just like a BMS 4540ND) into my 3-way bass cab design (see sig), with a Eminence 3015LF woofer and 18 Sound 6ND410 midrange cone.

The PT waveguide and top-drawer compression driver definitely makes for a more spacious detailed top, and it's way more like parity FR when listening off-axis.

I'm also going to try the 18 Sound XT120 and Dayton HO7 guides eventually.
Click to expand...

I find that in a 3-way system even when I have a mid that will play high, having the WG work down to the bottom of its usable range pays dividends in dispersion. I'm inclined to use a midwoofer from 200 up to the ewave crossover point and a big, slammin' LF driver below rather than trying to find the rare (and costly) woofer that plays the bottom octave the way that I need it to and behaves in the crossover region.
But that's because I'm a cheapskate & have tons of 'adequate' cone drivers around.
 
A big "thank you" to the Econowave inventors

The Econowave crossover and this long thread on so many variations, loaded with explanations on why this approach works and when it works, inspired me to try integrating my Pioneer HPM 110 (similar to HPM 100 but built from particle board with plastic finish) with a few horns I already had. The result is much better than I dared to expect. Actually it cost me a couple of hours of sleep last night putting on one cd after the the other, because the joy of listening to music had returned after years of listening to compromised set ups. So thank you gentlemen for sharing your wisdom and experience with the community. :bigok:

(As my speakers use old fashioned horns in stead of waveguides, I won't pollute this thread with a description. In stead I will post a message in a new thread.)

Best regards,

Zeppo
 
Bauhausler said:
I'm inclined to use a midwoofer from 200 up to the ewave crossover point and a big, slammin' LF driver below rather than trying to find the rare (and costly) woofer that plays the bottom octave the way that I need it to and behaves in the crossover region.
But that's because I'm a cheapskate & have tons of 'adequate' cone drivers around.
Click to expand...

JBL agreed with you in this approach. See the 4340, 4343, 4344, 4345, 4350 and 4355 studio monitors. Except for now we don't need supertweeters. All of these used either a slamming 10" or 12" mid-woofer down to about 290 Hz, and a big honkin' woofer or woofers (2235s or 2245s) down to the basement frequencies...

Some would say that these are still the best JBL studio monitors...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
GordonW said:
(cue broken record :D )

If you want a sound somewhere between the two of these, the 2234 can be a great choice. Basically, it's a 2235H without the mass ring. A little more extension than the 2225, but more efficient (and "faster" in terms of "slam") than the 2235.

Regards,
Gordon.
Click to expand...

Yes, that driver has crossed my mind, and I have one more set of 2225H that I could make into 2234. :scratch2:

russellc
 
Zilch said:
My first E'Wave 3-Way used 2407 on the standard waveguide as supertweeter:

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Can y'all say "Kicks ASS!" :guitar:
Click to expand...

YES! That's the same monster 4507 cab (and what also looks to be 2235H) that I've been using to great effect. Rex Everything just scored that same cab. If anyone's wondering, this combo indeed kicks ass.:yes:

Russellc
 
Bauhausler said:
I find that in a 3-way system even when I have a mid that will play high, having the WG work down to the bottom of its usable range pays dividends in dispersion. I'm inclined to use a midwoofer from 200 up to the ewave crossover point and a big, slammin' LF driver below rather than trying to find the rare (and costly) woofer that plays the bottom octave the way that I need it to and behaves in the crossover region.
But that's because I'm a cheapskate & have tons of 'adequate' cone drivers around.
Click to expand...

If you look at the FR graph of the 18 Sound 6ND410, it's incredibly sensitive/efficient until you get down to below 800 Hz or so, and also has great off-axis response until 2500-3000 Hz or so. It matches well with the PT waveguide there, so for bass cab use I am more than satisfied... For the low crossover between it and the woofer I do an asymmetric overlap LR24 at 630/500 Hz, and for the crossover between it and the PT waveguide/2407H I have an acoustic crossover point that centers around 3K Hz that's electrically like BW3 underlapped to give -6dB instead of -3dB meeting points.

This is actually a biamp setup with woofer on one side, and -3dB padded midrange and CD compensated passive crossover for PT waveguide on the other. It plays well with up to around 700+ watts going to the woofer. EDIT: Said woofer is the Eminence 3015LF, which once off the port is around 99 dB, 1 watt/1 meter.
 
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Would that be a "3Wave" Z???

I used the Pyle waveguide and Selenium 210 as a super tweeter for a while on my big rig and it worked out very well.
 
Zilch, I don't recall seeing any measurements for that rig. U have?

I think a small 90x50 waveguide would be great for 3Wave, but I don't know of any other than the Crites horn. The 6x6 has the wrong pattern and height.

And the crossover is confounding me....looks Model 19. :confused:
Did I sleep through a few hundred pages of E'Wave somehow?

Zilch said:
My first E'Wave 3-Way used 2407 on the standard waveguide as supertweeter:

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Can y'all say "Kicks ASS!" :guitar:
Click to expand...
 
Just wanted to add that even the mini-PT waveguide sounds better than any HF section found in a commercial bass cab, and beats what's found in a lot of otherwise well-designed club PA enclosures by a long shot as well. The waveguides used for projects in this thread are for my tastes the best way to increase sweet spots there is for small or moderate budgets!

I'll get around to trying the Dayton PO7 soon too, and the 18 Sound XT120.
 
Zeppo said:
Actually it cost me a couple of hours of sleep last night putting on one cd after the the other, because the joy of listening to music had returned after years of listening to compromised set ups. So thank you gentlemen for sharing your wisdom and experience with the community. :bigok:
Click to expand...
You are very welcome, Zeppo; no matter the means, yours is always the best result, by far. :thmbsp:

skywave-rider said:
Zilch, I don't recall seeing any measurements for that rig. U have?
Click to expand...
I don't believe so, but they are still set up and playable in ZilchLab.

skywave-rider said:
I think a small 90x50 waveguide would be great for 3Wave, but I don't know of any other than the Crites horn. The 6x6 has the wrong pattern and height.
Click to expand...
There is a smaller one, with an integral dome driver, I believe it is. I don't know what it is, actually:

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/AE Series Compact Models/AC15-WH.pdf

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?docid=1077&doctype=3

skywave-rider said:
And the crossover is confounding me....looks Model 19. :confused:

Did I sleep through a few hundred pages of E'Wave somehow?
Click to expand...
That's the "Keeper," derivative of several vintage JBL crossover designs, developed by member Toddalin and myself, seems like in another life. That keyword will find our project over on LHF; we're both still using it in systems today.... :D
 
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Ewave project in the style of Pi 4 speakers

I am now breaking in my 4 pi stlye ewave project and the sound good to start with, though the bass is a little tight, and the highs a little shrill.

I am comparing a standard ewave crossover with the 4 pi crossover and I'll need to measure somehow because they sound the same when the lpad is set to match.

This project uses Eminence Omega 15" woofer and the d220Ti compression driver with the pyle PH612 waveguides.

box dimensions are based on the golden ratio: 12.5" x 19.25" x 30.25" (3/4" oak ply) and the crossovers are external. Lots of binding posts!

Will I be successful measuring in room response with an old radio shack SPL meter? I also have an oscilloscope too, but I am not sure if that'll help.

I want to thank the community and Wayne Parham for the inspiration and designs. so... THANKS!
 

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tbbenton said:
Will I be successful measuring in room response with an old radio shack SPL meter? I also have an oscilloscope too, but I am not sure if that'll help.

I want to thank the community and Wayne Parham for the inspiration and designs. so... THANKS!
Click to expand...
You are "Official E'Waver" #47 with your excellent build:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2260584#post2260584

If you control the variables, you'll be able to get good "relative" room response measurements with the R/S meter; don't expect them to accurately reflect the actual response, though, as it is not accurate in the higher frequencies.

That should be good enough for you to be able to see the results of filter tweaks, again, in a relative sense. I may have a suggestion or two as to how to tame the highs a bit, but I have to look up my prior work with the HF comp....
 
Zilch said:
I don't believe so, but they are still set up and playable in ZilchLab.

There is a smaller one, with an integral dome driver, I believe it is. I don't know what it is, actually:

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/AE Series Compact Models/AC15-WH.pdf

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?docid=1077&doctype=3


That's the "Keeper," derivative of several vintage JBL crossover designs, developed by member Toddalin and myself, seems like in another life. That keyword will find our project over on LHF; we're both still using it in systems today.... :D
Click to expand...

I think this is the development thread and this post shows RTA:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=94443&postcount=94

If anybody out there has that JBL AC/15WH product: is the tweeter throat choppable for adaptation to a 1" compression driver?
EDIT: The tear sheet lists the waveguide as 90x90
 
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Zilch said:
A big "HI" to Andy!

For right now, you might reverse the polarity on the HF drivers, and I believe you'll find they will sound OK with the waveguide moved more forward, but I encourage you to build the E'Wave crossovers to get the proper HF compensation happening. Note that the polarity is inverted with those, as well.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the help. I'll be ordering the parts soon for the x-over tomorrow. Should be up and running in a week...
 
tbbenton said:
I am now breaking in my 4 pi stlye ewave project and the sound good to start with, though the bass is a little tight, and the highs a little shrill.

I am comparing a standard ewave crossover with the 4 pi crossover and I'll need to measure somehow because they sound the same when the lpad is set to match.

This project uses Eminence Omega 15" woofer and the d220Ti compression driver with the pyle PH612 waveguides.

box dimensions are based on the golden ratio: 12.5" x 19.25" x 30.25" (3/4" oak ply) and the crossovers are external. Lots of binding posts!

Will I be successful measuring in room response with an old radio shack SPL meter? I also have an oscilloscope too, but I am not sure if that'll help.

I want to thank the community and Wayne Parham for the inspiration and designs. so... THANKS!
Click to expand...

Nice job! Melding of 4 PI and Econowave.:thmbsp:

Russellc
 
A 2-way Ewave I can get behind

Altec Bolero 890B. 406Z woofer and PR run directly from ewave crossover LP section. 3000G tweeter disconnected. PH612 WG with D220Ti driver.

I could easily convert a pair of these to ported alignment, remove the 3000G tweets and install the WG in the baffle but I can't bear to cut up a pair. If the 406Z will fit in another cab I may try to do a 1-box 2-way system at some point.

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