Russellc
Addicted Member
Look at post #1810. All the babbling about it is back before this. click the link and it will take you to the begining...
Russellc
Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
Look at post #1810. All the babbling about it is back before this. click the link and it will take you to the begining...
Russellc
Hello Ewave'ers
I got two dumb Questions
1. is the crossover connection to the WG's reversed? + from amp to - on wave guide?
The L-pad wiring as shown seemed counter intuitive to me at first. I wired my L-pad how I thought it should be and that turned out screwed up.
Wired exactly as indicated is correct. + from amp goes to - on the compression driver via pin 1. Pin 2 on the L-pad goes to the + terminal of the driver.
I wired up one set of E-wave crossovers per spec, and one set (before I noticed the way the schematic specified the L-pad wiring) with a more conventional L-pad wiring, and reversed the polarity to the tweeter AFTER the L-pad. Both worked. They're electrically equivalent.
Regards,
Gordon.
Russellc
Addicted Member
At the risk of stirring up that poo pot again, I'll refer you to the reading where you can see various opinions weighing in, from those that have never tried it, to some die hard Lansing Heritage members who swear by it. Basically, a little more clarity, which I thought helped the 220 ti's slightly fizzy sound up high. To me, in my opinion, it was well worth while.
To those who oppose this is fine. I'll be glad to discuss implimentation, but I'm done defending it. Everyone is welcome to their opinion, and I'll say it again, the stock crossover is great as is.
Russellc
Russellc
Addicted Member
Looks like the bug has bit you; that's quite a nice collection!
Just what the doctor ordered. :thmbsp:
Mostly because they're compact, less expensive, have low DCR, and work well enough.
If you're talking BMS 4555 on the 1.5" waveguide, a Zilchster favorite, I haven't worked up the HF comp for that, but intend to. I use some ancient relic Altec Model 19 crossovers to run them here.
For the 1" 4550/4552nd + throat adapter on the standard E'Waveguide, I worked up a derivative of the 4425 crossover before Jack and Wayne taught us the E'Wave way. Those are kinda cool because they have independently adjustable mid and high levels like 4430 and Model 19. I recently saw the schematic posted somewhere on LHF, I believe it was, so I have it here somewhere.
You've really got to have measurement capability to optimize these various combinations, but that can be as simple as RTA like Jack used to develop E'Wave. It opens up a whole 'nother dimension of DIY fun.... :yes:
Zilch nuts a go-go! For those who havent tried, this is a great way to cobble a crossover together for temporary...well, ah semi permanent experimentation.
Russellc
Russellc
Addicted Member
Russellc
Addicted Member
I always loved Fizzies as a kid. Sort of like a science project you could drink.
Not to bad mouth the 220 ti, but it is a characteristic of the driver up high.
Stills sounds head and shoulders better than most home speakers high end drivers, and at its cost its a no brainer. That said, as nice as it sounds, after a few days of it, changing to the DE 250 uncovers another layer of clarity. It should, at 3 times the price. I'm sure its a similar deal with the BMS drivers.
The Selenium is an excellent driver for this particular project. The design uses it perfectly with the crossover, combining its need to be crossed high enough to be within its window of operation ( electrical crossover at 3000)and the crossover circuit's ability ( when combined with the 220 ti) to allow an accoustical point of around 1600.
Jack and Zilch couldnt have done any better if the 220 ti was designed specifically for this project. It simply works out perfectly here for this purpose and what a bargain price. Many diapragms cost 2-3 times the cost of this whole driver.
Fizzily yours,
Russellc
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A couple of questions.
1) Are there any crossover tweaks aimed at the 220i and JBL 2226H midwoofer? I'm currently using the high efficiency design listed in the summary section here:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=151282&d=1242968714
2) I have some occasional directionality that concerns me. Some (not all) instruments appear to be coming from the speakers. This could have something to do with speaker positioning though.
3) What would be a good amp under $200 used on eBay? I have a lead on a Crown XLS 202 for $180, but I'd prefer to stick with a home audio amp if there are any in my budget. I want an amp so I can use an equalizer. My Onkyo TX-SR805 a/v receiver has audyssey, but it doesn't do everything right. Specifically, I need my highs extended a bit. Cymbals aren't "all there" all the time. Part of that is my receiver rolls off at the top end a bit more than some receivers.
Thanks!
1) Are there any crossover tweaks aimed at the 220i and JBL 2226H midwoofer? I'm currently using the high efficiency design listed in the summary section here:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=151282&d=1242968714
2) I have some occasional directionality that concerns me. Some (not all) instruments appear to be coming from the speakers. This could have something to do with speaker positioning though.
3) What would be a good amp under $200 used on eBay? I have a lead on a Crown XLS 202 for $180, but I'd prefer to stick with a home audio amp if there are any in my budget. I want an amp so I can use an equalizer. My Onkyo TX-SR805 a/v receiver has audyssey, but it doesn't do everything right. Specifically, I need my highs extended a bit. Cymbals aren't "all there" all the time. Part of that is my receiver rolls off at the top end a bit more than some receivers.
Thanks!
lico
Super Member
Are (were
) those Aztec Guaguins? I had a line on a set of those once, and still regret not picking them them.
lico
Super Member
I'm always getting it on other forums:
"This driver is better and that waveguide is better!"
Do better than we do for less than $100 a pair, and you'll have our immediate and undivided attention....
For $100 a pair, sure, no debate. But for a little bit more you can get those DE250s on the JBL WG which sound so much better
Yeah yeah I know, I'm still running a "stock" Ewave crossover uncompensated for the DE250s, and can't measure any responses to see how flat they really are. All I know is what I hear and I like it. I have a set NLA Advents Ewave'ed with Selenium 220s I can A/B against, and the DE250 is a superior driver. I highly recommend it as an Ewave "upgrade".
Perfect!
Jrock7 is "Official E'Waver" #57.
If you're going to play them real loud for sound reinforcement, Wayne suggests increasing the power capacity of the resistors; he uses four in series/parallel at each location.
Evaluate how hot they get under your typical operating conditions to determine if this will be required.
25 and 50 watt non-inductive power resistors are also available.... :yes:
Page 12 here:
http://www.percyaudio.com/Catalog.pdf
Jrock7 is "Official E'Waver" #57.
If you're going to play them real loud for sound reinforcement, Wayne suggests increasing the power capacity of the resistors; he uses four in series/parallel at each location.
Evaluate how hot they get under your typical operating conditions to determine if this will be required.
25 and 50 watt non-inductive power resistors are also available.... :yes:
Page 12 here:
http://www.percyaudio.com/Catalog.pdf
320027/6597=48.5110
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Russellc
Addicted Member
For $100 a pair, sure, no debate. But for a little bit more you can get those DE250s on the JBL WG which sound so much better
All I know is what I hear and I like it. I have a set NLA Advents Ewave'ed with Selenium 220s I can A/B against, and the DE250 is a superior driver. I highly recommend it as an Ewave "upgrade".
Thats what I've found as well. I did find the CC version crossover helps the 220 ti in this regard. Not to slamm the 220 ti, it works out great in this application. It is a driver whose extension is to some degree propped up by break up modes on the high end. It gives a nice effect but with time gets a little hazy.
I'm getting the best results using the DE 250 with the standard HF ewave crossover, but am using the 4430 monitors Low frequency portion of the crossover. It uses the same 12 uf cap as e'wave but a much larger coil, which lowers the electrical crossover point a tad, sort of like the LE14A e'wave variation.
Earl's Abbey crossover has 3 notch filters on the HF, but this is also with 6db per octave slopes. Wayne, using the 3rd order crossover, has it as flat as a flitter with only compensation like E'wave uses. You;ve got to admit, this driver shows immense promise as a step up for Econowave.
Russellc
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Russellc
Addicted Member
It could have something to do with positioning. the popular deployment seem to be having them cross sightly in front of the listening position.
I use either 2225h or 2235H, so am used to the 15 inch driver thing. One thing you might also do is carefully go
through all your wiring and make sure nothing is reversed. I listened to a MTM (Diappolito) alignment for months trying to sort it out and finally found one box had one of the woofers out of phase with the other. Weird instrument positioning was the order of the day!
You should have a nice 6 ft wide or so sweet spot and expansive soundstage.
I also seemed to have a little better luck with lowering the LFcrossover point a little, sort of like the LE14A version of the crossover. This seemed to clear up soundstaging somewhat.
Russellc
Rapidroy
Well-Known Member
Are (were
Yes, Guaguins III they are a couple of the first ones #12,27 it looked like to me Aztec was trying to copy Klipsch with the woofer and 2 horns, someone here on AK has a pair with much later #'s and the lay out of the speakers were differance and a port was added. The stock xover was a cobbled mess, the inside plywood looked like it was taken off the walls of the factory and used, and they sounded bad. I cleaned up the outside and inside added the WG and covered them with the black speaker cloth. Sounding nice and Looking nice too.:thmbsp:
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
Plot of unrestored LE10A
For grins I plotted a LE10A with original surround to see how the hard surround material affects Fs:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=243101
For grins I plotted a LE10A with original surround to see how the hard surround material affects Fs:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=243101
ROSSO
Active Member
Bet if there were an available E-W PCB for the CC'd version there would be lots more experimentors... :yes: