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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

I have used 12 " "floral craft rings" found in craft stores to adapt 10" woofers to 12" woofer holes in various past projects. They are made of 1/4" high density mdf . Outside diameter is 12", inside diameter is 9 1/4".
http://3ringcircles.com/pages/sizes_n_shapes/ringspurchase.html

Most 10 inch woofers require 9 1/8" to 9 1/4" cutouts.

Roy
 

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Needs some tunning

But fun nonetheless. The Pioneers end their business around 175hz where the EV's pick up. I know that might be asking for trouble but it sounds good. Doesn't work so well around the driver's 500hz rated low end spec. But I think the horn helps it down there. The horn spec says it's good down to 200hz. My preamp has a 3khz shelf setting on the treble and matches the driver well in that regard. The RB-981 is a brighter amp than the HK770 I started with and wakes up the high end also. I'm going to try stuffing the ports in the Pioneers. They can be boomy on some material. Jazz and such is unreal for lack of better words. The vertical stacked Pioneers, while sounding very big, smeared the timing of things a bit and sounded flat.
 

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Hi, after having plowed through the entire thread I'm finally de-lurking here. I have a set of the E-wave x-over parts and the Seleniums in hand, and I'm waiting for JBL to get some waveguides to me. The 12 x 6's should be coming, apparently the 6 x 6's are back ordered.

Not having a set of JBL's or Advents (or anything else, really) to convert, I've been spending some time looking at woofers. Right now, I'm planning on vented enclosures (I can build to suit), with ports that could be plugged off to give a low-Q sealed box should they be used in a smaller room with lots of room gain or in an HT system with a sub. Vents open, they'd be the rock'n'roll system, and would probably see some use in the back yard for parties or days by the pool. I don't have big power available so higher sensitivity is good.

I know about the Dayton Classics, and they'd be a fallback, but I can afford to go as high as $100/driver (maybe a bit more if the value was high) so I've been looking at alternatives. Here are a few I think might work:

Beyma10BR60:
http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/10BR60.pdf
These go for about $100. They'd probably work in the PE knockdown boxes, but would go deeper with a little more volume. Cast basket, FR looks good up to 2k, moderate inductance, probably some breakup around 900. Around 91 dB/W. There's a 12BR70 also, similar specs, bigger box, play louder, $25 more.

P. Audio E12-200S
http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/images/E12-200S-200A.pdf
On sale for $69. The FR on the spec sheet is probably too smoothed to be really useful, but it at least models nicely in 3 - 4 cf vented. Stamped chassis, pleated cloth surround. Higher sensitivity, 98 dB claimed, but WinISD says more like 95. Reasonably low inductance, too, which should make crossing over easier.

P. Audio WN-12S
http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/images/WN-12S.pdf
$104 on sale. Another nice fit for the PE cabinet, though it won't go as deep as the other two. Cast basket, neo magnet, even lower inductance, 95 dB sensitivity. Should play louder than the other two, academic in my case as any of them would go loud enough. With a sub these should kick, but maybe light on bass on their own in the outdoors?

I looked at the Eminence Delta-12LFA, but the crossover region looks like it gets a bit lumpy. No telling what any of the above would sound like without trying a set. Anything else out there worth investigating?

Bill
 
Zilch said:
I'm getting respectable numbers at all of those volumes with the three drivers mentioned thus far -- 123A(-x)/2213(H) closed box, DC300-8, and 128H(-1) vented.
Click to expand...

I tried 2213H in Win ISD (beta) and got this at 1.8 Cu Ft. F3= 43.86 @ 3.09 db.
Has a little hump centering at 2 db high at 70 hz. I just used the standard data in Win ISD, the beta version had this woofer, but not the spl figure.

I'm wondering about the dayton Classic 10 incher in this PE box:scratch2:

What do I need to capture screen shots of graphs and post them? Save as, put it in a file, or is there some better way, or a software for this purpose maybe?

Russellc
 
badmusician said:
I looked at the Eminence Delta-12LFA, but the crossover region looks like it gets a bit lumpy. No telling what any of the above would sound like without trying a set. Anything else out there worth investigating?
Click to expand...
Brandon (Augerpro) is using Eminence Kappalite in his latest build. If you accept a shift in perspective to using with subs indoors, having extended bass becomes less of a priority, particularly for multi-purpose deployment such as you propose.

Which B&C does Geddes use in Abbey? :dunno:
 
Labor Day Ewave'in.

I had them done more or less, a week or so ago but wanted to finish the horn baffles before posting any pics.

This variation consists of the Selenium D210Ti on the JBL waveguide, EV TL806A (EVM 12L) and "high efficiency woofer" network using motor run oil capacitors as close to spec as possible.

1 pic. before horn baffle and the rest, after.

They turned out pretty nifty I think! Sound pretty good too :yes:


RC
 

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Spring for a pair of D220Ti soon, maybe, then slide on up to DE250 on the QSC waveguides.... :thmbsp:
 
Zilch said:
Spring for a pair of D220Ti soon, maybe, then slide on up to DE250 on the QSC waveguides.... :thmbsp:
Click to expand...


I can see the DE250's future for something or another and the QSC sound interesting also. For today, the D210Ti's on the the Jbl's horns are chugg'in away just fine. I need to get some more hours on the oils before getting all worked up about something new ;)


RC
 
RC,

Nice job on the speakers and I like the oil caps.

What's in that tube collection on the left side of the room?

Interesting art collection you have there too!
 
doucanoe said:
I can see the DE250's future for something or another and the QSC sound interesting also. For today, the D210Ti's on the the Jbl's horns are chugg'in away just fine. I need to get some more hours on the oils before getting all worked up about something new ;)


RC
Click to expand...

Its just a natural progression. A can do if you're after DE 250s anyway....the guides are nice and only 8 bucks more or less:D It does sound excellent!:thmbsp:

Another thought if you are going to stick with the Seleniums, 210 or 220, is to give the Charge Coupled crossover a whirl.
I found it an improvement, and as soon as I get a permanent crossover in it, I'll do the QSC DE 250 version.
russellc
 
I may soon end up with a pair of Altec 417's. They are now in a Twin reverb that I'm selling but I think I'll probably end up separating them from the amp. I notice that a pair of econo waves have been recently produced using the EVML's, this is also a musical instrument speaker, I had one in a guitar amp. Has anyone built hi-fi speakers using the Altec 417s? Any comments on the efficacy of this idea?
Byron
 
JBL 2414H on 6" X 6" JBL waveguides a la AC16

Hey, all. I haven't turned on my system in a couple of weeks due to work pressure. Today I got a chance to lash up crossovers for the JBL 2414H and 6" X 6" waveguides as used in the AC16 speaker. No pix for now, as my camera is 'missing'.
I built the AC16 crossover as specced, unwinding larger chokes to get the .3mh, .4mh and .06mh values. The Woofer Tester 3 makes modding chokes a breeze.
The AC16 uses the 226j woofer, which Ido not have. I hooked up to my Altec Bolero boxes with 406Z woofers. This is not ideal and the woofers may lack top end output to match the waveguides. But it was already there.
The treble is a little 'hot' and I'm bringing it down a couple of dbs with an EQ.
The treble has excellent dispersion and 'openness'.
Tomorrow I'll get out the measurement mic and DEQ2496 and see what the plot looks like. So far I like the sound but I expect to find some funny business in the crossover region due to the radically different woofer.

*** edit ***
looking at the specs I have to suspect that the 226J is a 16 Ohm unit. The DCR is 9.6 Ohms and it uses unusually large looking chokes in the LP section. can't find out anything more about it.
 
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