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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

reneborg said:
Ok everyone who's been helping ... I've downloaded the WinISD software, but I see I need to learn how to drive it before I can really utilize it. One thing that I was wondering about was how would I try out the suggested woofer (Dayton 295-310) in the software? I saw a Dayton 8 but it didn't seem to match the specs I saw on Part-express website.

Also, once I load the driver, I understand about putting in my cabinet's dimensions, etc., but don't quite get (yet) how one 'tunes' the port.

Thanks!
Click to expand...


I just measured mine, there's probably "too much" info there. I would just plug in what WINISD wants, and the rest is beyond me for the time being...:) Plug it into WinISD:
Q,Fs test completed: Thu Nov 05 13:19:40 2009
Drive level 100.00% [3181.82 uA]
Shunts: Not Used
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Re 6.657 ohms
Fs 30.174 Hz
Zmax 48.036 ohms
Ro 17.845 ohms
F0 19.178 Hz
F1 48.150 Hz
Fmin 173.185 Hz
Qes 0.4501
Qms 2.7976
Qts 0.3877
Le 1.862 mH @1k
XLe 17.219 ohms @1k
PLe 42.810 Degrees @1kHz
;------------------------------------------------;
; Approximate Impedance Fitting Constants ;
; (Improved with Completion of Vas Test) ;
;------------------------------------------------;
Krm 724.297E-06 ohms Freq dependent resistance
Erm 1.018E+00 Rem=Krm*(2*pi*f)^Erm
Kxm 26.429E-03 Henries Freq dependent reactance
Exm 702.084E-03 Xem=Kxm*(2*pi*f)^Exm, Lem=Kxm*(2*pi*f)^(Exm-1)


Vas test completed: Thu Nov 05 13:24:35 2009
Drive level 100.00% [3181.82 uA]
Shunts: Not Used
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Re = 6.6570 ohms
Fs = 30.1736 Hz
Zmax = 48.0362 ohms
Qes = 0.4501
Qms = 2.7976
Qts = 0.3877
Le = 1.8624 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 163.0000 mm ( 6.4173 in )
Sd =20867.2453 mm^2( 32.3443 in^2)
Vas = 61.3674 L ( 2.1672 ft^3)
BL = 8.8679 N/A
Mms = 28.0443 g
Cms = 992.0710 uM/N
Kms = 1007.9924 N/M
Rms = 1.9005 R mechanical
Efficiency = 0.3520 %
Sensitivity= 87.4828 dB @1W/1m
Sensitivity= 88.2809 dB @2.83Vrms/1m
Krm = 724.297E-06 ohms Freq dependent resistance
Erm = 1.018E+00 Rem=Krm*(2*pi*f)^Erm
Kxm = 26.429E-03 Henries Freq dependent reactance
 
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MartinV56 said:
Zilch, I had to say a big THANK YOU , Econo Wave Guide 420y sweet,with 71 set amp WOW, :banana:

imagen112.jpg
Click to expand...

Great setup!
 
Ok, I hope this isn't too laughable :-)

I played around a bit with WinISD and got this output. I played with the tuning frequency to minimize the 'bump' in the output plot -- is that what one should be doing, or should I plug in the 28Hz and 44Hz numbers previously suggested and go with that?

Also, how does the tweeter come into play here? Or does it???

thanks!



Driver : Dayton 295-310
Vas : 50.5
Qts : 0.40
Fs : 31.00
SPL : 88.00
--
Project by : Administrator
Project for : you
--
Number of drivers : 1
Box type : Vented
Box size : 29.2 l
Tuning frequency : 36.00 Hz
Vent : 2 vent(s)
9.28 in length for each
1.85 in round


Relative
Freq Gain SPL
[Hz] [dB] [dB]
20.00 -19.33 68.67
25.00 -12.84 75.16
30.00 -8.08 79.92
35.00 -4.60 83.40
40.00 -2.16 85.84
45.00 -0.60 87.40
50.00 0.29 88.29
55.00 0.75 88.75
60.00 0.96 88.96
65.00 1.02 89.02
70.00 1.01 89.01
75.00 0.97 88.97
80.00 0.91 88.91
85.00 0.85 88.85
90.00 0.78 88.78
95.00 0.73 88.73
100.00 0.67 88.67
 

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reneborg said:
Thank you so much Zilch and Gordon! I will study up on the info linked to. Gordon, what does a 'vent tuned to around 26-28 Hz' mean? -- just a guess here, but does this mean that the frequency a vent is tuned to is a function of that vent's opening size and vent length?
Click to expand...

Yes. Once you have a cabinet volume, a certain frequency for tuning will requre a certain length vent for a specific diameter. The larger the diameter, the longer the length required to get the same tuning frequency... and vice-versa.

Programs like WINISD and the like will allow you to pick the tuning frequency, then pick a vent diameter, and will then tell you how long you need to make the vent to get the desired frequency...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Zilch said:
HEH!

Skywave's got a new WT2 tool; he's gonna run out of drivers to measure soon.... :D
Click to expand...

Yes....need more.

reneborg said:
Ok, I hope this isn't too laughable :-)

I played around a bit with WinISD and got this output. ....
Click to expand...

I got similar but a little flatter with a 2" (ID PVC) single at 6.5". But I think there are probably a bunch of options. Yours may be better. With 2 ports, one can be closed with a ZilchPlugz brand port plugger.
IMG_0830_2.jpg
 
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Thanks again, Gordon!

What criteria does one use to pick a tuning frequency? In the two examples above, I first tried to minimize the bump of the Freq. response curve, so I used 36 Hz as the tuning freq. Then I tried 44 Hz for the second image because someone suggested that.

[Edit: now I see that by going to one vent, I get a bit flatter. Thanks skywave! ]

I guess my basic query is: what is one trying to optimize for when changing the parameters? I am assuming that the objective is to get as flat a freq response as possible. Is that correct? Sorry if that's a RTFM question!
 
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reneborg said:
Here's the same with a 44Hz tuning.
Click to expand...
I used the database "Dayton 8"" not the correct T-S parameters, so the curve I got was slightly flatter. This would also affect your port dimensions. Mea culpa... I did pick two smaller ports because I figured that you might be cramped for space on the front of a smaller cabinet and smaller ports also are shorter. The ports can be any shape. If you play with Win ISD you'll see that there is an option for rectangular ports or slots.

reneborg said:
What criteria does one use to pick a tuning frequency? In the two examples above, I first tried to minimize the bump of the Freq. response curve, so I used 36 Hz as the tuning freq. Then I tried 44 Hz for the second image because someone suggested that.

I guess my basic query is: what is one trying to optimize for when changing the parameters? I am assuming that the objective is to get as flat a freq response as possible. Is that correct? Sorry if that's a RTFM question!
Click to expand...
You have the gist of it. You would strive to achieve a balance between the lowest usable low frequency response (say -3 dB down, some folks might consider -6 dB still usable) and the flattest curve down to that point.
 
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OK,
I took two pics with my camera phone. How do I post them on this sight?
 

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no worries! I used the data from this page for my speaker tests
<http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/295-310s.pdf>

and what are the T-S parameters, Rosso? thanks so much for all your help, folks. I'm learning a lot -- can't say I understand it yet, but I'm getting there ;-)
 
acmetv said:
OK,
I took two pics with my camera phone. How do I post them on this site?
Click to expand...
In "Edit" mode, hit the "Manage Attachments" button near the bottom, and a window will open allowing you to Browse for the location of your pic(s). Once they are selected, hit the "Upload" button, wait for that process to complete, then close the window, complete the post, and they will appear as clickable thumbnails at the bottom for all to relish.... :thmbsp:
 
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Thanks again Zilch.
Out of curiousity, what has been a good substitute woofer for these Advents with the Econowave mod?
 
acmetv said:
Thanks again Zilch.
Out of curiousity, what has been a good substitute woofer for these Advents with the Econowave mod?
Click to expand...
We've all been using the stock Advent woofers thus far, mostly because they are plentiful and cheap. I believe PeteB may have measured and posted the T/S parameters.

I suppose there are modern woofers which might do as well or better, but it would take some searching, as drivers suited to acoustic suspension alignments that'll play competently into the midrange are uncommon. Other than in subs, it's not "mainstream" design any more. Some of the open baffle favorites, maybe? :dunno:

I had them cranking pretty high SPL at Nor Cal DIY (everybody did), and one member commented that he could hear distortion in the bass due to overexcursion. Pete and Ken can tell us more, probably.

wiredbecker said:
The refoamed Advent woofers rock as is! Seriously.
Click to expand...
They can certainly run with the big boys. I think some attendees were surprised at what our humble relics could do in that huge room.... ;)
 
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I be Wave'n

E, that this! And it only took me 30 pages to finish! Love the way they sound, been going back and forth between the horns and the waveguides, I find myself wanting to put the WG's back up more and more...:thmbsp:to all concerned for a great idea, and execution... 2235's for now, but I have several WG's on order, so the 10" Advent's will be next, then a 2.5 dual 10" made with $10 Fry's specials... Maybe some 6.5" MTM CV's I have, the piezo's gotta GO!
 

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