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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

P.S., if I ever get off my butt, I will build a pair with American Monitor woofers and cabs.
 
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Hey Z, I looked at a link you posted from JBL about the LE10. It says the LE10 only goes up to 1200hz. Is that high enough for crossing in the eWave scheem?
 
Zilch said:
It's the QSC's roundover which comprises the difference in overall size between the waveguides; deducting that, the actual flares are similar, and a comparison of Geddes's performance data for the JBL versus Brandon's measurements of the QSC reveals they are remarkably similar, with the JBL having a bit of an edge with respect to pattern control. It may be argued that JBL achieves that small advantage, if it is even said to be one, via diffraction, whereas the QSC is a more "pure" waveguide.
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I am sure the roundover contributes to the overall size difference, but I expect the QSC could be considerably smaller while still working at the same frequency as the JBL/Pyle waveguides. Of course, I know little about the geometry of waveguides so maybe I am shooting from the hip again (I am famous for doing that). I would expect the QSC horn (waveguide) to play down to about 800-1,000 Hz. Do we know the specifications of the JBL/Pyle versus the QSC as far as lowest usable frequency?

I maybe will try the L/R4 Xover on a pair of already built E'Waves, and also try a pair of E'Wave Xovers on the B&C speakers. I feel the L/R4 is very worthwhile, but lots of it's potential may be lost on the B&C speakers simply due to the size of the horn and the distance C-C of the drivers. And of course, the depth of the QSC is very important as well.
 
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djnagle said:
Hey Z, I looked at a link you posted from JBL about the LE10. It says the LE10 only goes up to 1200hz. Is that high enough for crossing in the eWave scheem?
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JBL used it considerably higher than that. Go for it. :thmbsp:

jackgiff said:
I would expect the QSC horn (waveguide) to play down to about 800-1,000 Hz. Do we know the specifications of the JBL/Pyle versus the QSC as far as lowest usable frequency?
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It depends on the criteria. They'll both play as low as the drivers mounted to them; the concept of "loading" does not apply in waveguide theory, according to Geddes. More significantly, we look to the polars and find that both are losing pattern control below 2 kHz, and it's all but gone at 1 kHz, but the JBL "hangs in" in the vertical somewhat better between those frequencies.... :yes:
 
Zilch said:
It depends on the criteria. They'll both play as low as the drivers mounted to them; the concept of "loading" does not apply in waveguide theory, according to Geddes. More significantly, we look to the polars and find that both are losing pattern control below 2 kHz, and it's all but gone at 1 kHz, but the JBL "hangs in" in the vertical somewhat better between those frequencies.... :yes:
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That is interesting. Don't get me wrong, the DE250 on the QSC horn sounds exquisite. I have just been listening to a few Marty Robbins LP's, and a couple CD's with female voices. It sounds fabulous. But the problems making it sound that way seemed more difficult than they needed to be.

On the other hand, the depth, while massive, was exactly right for the time delay, so it seems. Still the angle between vertical nulls seems less when the speaker is set upright on the floor, than when it is measured according to Wayne Parhams video. I wondered if the tuning ports being on the bottom affected that, but raising the speakers another couple inches from the floor doesn't matter. It is still somewhat baffling to me. I have never had these problems with the JBL/Pyle waveguides. They simply "Plug and Play." Perhaps another few days playing with them will cast some more light on things. Sure hope so!
 
Zilch said:
We don't know, is the answer. With well over 100 systems now built, certain woofers have emerged as "favorites," most likely more by default than actual performance. Brandon recently built with Eminence (Dc270 did early on as well, as I recall,) and Jack is trying a B&C. There are literally hundreds of options; we have primarily focused on what we had at hand or could easily and inexpensively acquire to date. Having proven the viability of the eWave concept to themselves, many experienced builders are now venturing forward into more sophisticated (and more expensive) design upgrades.

If we think about it in terms of eWave being a high-frequency module, a "tweeter," if you will, it may be seen that total system performance may vary significantly using different woofers, and the selection will depend upon various performance objectives. In more concrete terms, as example, several eWavers are looking to higher efficiency designs with more articulate midrange than the extended-bass systems most have built to date. Implicity, these will be augmented with subwoofers, as is commonly done in home theater, to make up the difference. Geddes suggests this is an optimum approach; none of his "mains" even pretend to play low bass. Others will counter that what's "right" according to Geddes may not be so for everyone.... :dunno:
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Just to add a little more...the first place to start might be to ask "how big a box" since that directly influences how any woofer performs. The big old woofers in big old boxes can work very nicely and be quite inexpensive (particularly if you already have them). There is no substitute for cubic feet. A second question, as Zilch alluded to, is to ask "what are you using them for"? Critical listening, home theater, or garage band blasters? Of course you might want to ask # 2 first, then # 1...

Once you have the application and the box size (roughly) selected then you can go woofer hunting. A cheap woofer in the right box is probably going to outperform an expensive one in the wrong box.

Go to Parts Express and check out the Eminence 12" woofers. Most of them include "project suggestions" that includes box sizes and modeled response curves that really helps illustrate how the same woofer in different boxes behaves. Or you can play with box modeling software...

Unfortunately this only leads more questions...
 
DENNYDOG said:
What was the real reason for using the QSC horn over the Pyle or JBL? Other than those being the screw on style. It's been shown that it would be easy enough to modify to a bolt on style.
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One, Augerpro's build requires it and that is why I bought it. That and once in hand, being bolt-on it avoided the "adapter effects" with B&C DE250 had with the JBL waveguide. It seemed to sound better to my ear, (still no measuring setup, money now funneled to F-5 project) with the DE 250 than using the JBL guide (w/ DE 250) did. Lastly, its bigger and looks cool....not to mention unavailable for the moment, which always makes it sound better!

Russellc
 
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JBL 2204 utility eWaves

First eWave attempt. JBL 2204 utility cabs. Standard eWave crossover. About 2 ft^3, sealed.
 

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The plan is to brew up a steam beer on sunday. The carboy is just for filtered drinking water.
 
With his "Utility" eWaves, Donprice is "Official E'Waver #74." :yes:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2260584#post2260584

[We'll know more how they sound after breaking in at this weekend's steam beer party..... :beer: ]

MartinV56 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw7pTwpx0K0

:thmbsp:
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Hi, Martin!

Yes, that's AK's own Wiredbecker building the pair of Advent eWaves we demonstrated at last week's Nor Cal DIY Audio meet.

The statistics there are quite encouraging, with the cumulative number of views climbing steadily since it was first posted.... :guitar:
 
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I think it could start to taper off now. I mean it's all been done. A few details here and there. Hasn't every speaker builder on Earth been exposed to this thread by now?
Where would new readers come from...

I'll change my mind if it starts to pick up again in 10 days or so.
 
Bauhausler said:
Where would new readers come from...?
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:scratch2:

Here maybe:

http://makezine.com/20/diyhome_econowave/

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