Is my new cartridge TOO good?

You've had some good input here and I hope my additional comments and experiences will be value-added for you.

First, almost all new cartridges take quite a while to break in, often 50-100 hours or more, and they can sound quite bright and strident until they do. Part of the reason for this, acc. to what Peter Ledermann of Soundsmith told me (arguably one of the most knowledgeable persons in the U.S. about the engineering aspects of cartridges) is that many cartridges, particularly mass-produced ones, are not properly or optimally aligned internally (where you can't see the alignment of components e.g. the armature, suspension, etc.) and the process of playing and running them in for this time is required them to kind of "twist" themselves into something resembling proper alignment. Your cartridge, while a good one and a fine value for the money, is not what would be considered a high-end cartridge with respect to it's engineering specification, it's more of a budget or entry-level cartridge. Let's be honest, we're not talking a $13,000 Koetsu Tiger Eye here or even a hand-assembled $600 Grado Reference Sonata. With cartridges, just like fine camera lenses, you get what you pay for. There is no way to engineer superior lens optical performance or high-end stereo cartridge performance inexpensively. The work is just too demanding and difficult, from an engineering perspective. As a result, these less expensive cartridges cannot be sold at a price point where the manufacturer can afford to extremely precisely hand-assemble and fine-tune the alignment of the cartridge internals into perfect and absolutely precise orientation. This is why many "deluxe" or "0.1%" cartridges are quite a bit more expensive than a standard issue cartridge, the cost and effort to get these carts perfect with respect to their ideal specs is costly and time-consuming, and this is why many cartridges need extensive running in before they start to sound good.

So, before passing final judgement, you will need to let your cart run-in a good while before getting a final assessment. Also, if I recall correctly, no one mentioned checking your vertical tracking angle or stylus rake angle of your cartridge. If you can adjust the VTA of your tonearm, you should look into fine-tuning that.

Additionally, it could also be that your stylus from your old cartridge is not as good as the stylus on the A-T with respect to resolving musical detail. This could be due to the fact that the stylus is worn, or the design of the new A-T stylus is superior at resolving detail. Any cart mfr will tell you that it all comes down to the stylus, it's design, mass, tip configuration, orientation, etc. with respect to the cartridge performance. The carts in many mfr lines are identical except for the stylus. For example, the Grado Prestige 1 Black, Green, Blue, Red, Silver, and Gold carts: they are all the same cartridge except that they have better styli and tighter tolerances as you go up the model line from Black to Gold.

Lastly, if you're hearing a lot of surface noise, unless they are physically damaged (as they could be from a worn or damaged stylus or mishandling) your records are dirty, and to remove this noise you have to get them thoroughly clean. While there is very good thread here about cleaning records manually (one that I've contributed my own experiences to), in my experience, no manual method holds a candle to using a record cleaning machine to vacuum out all the groove dirt, soils, oils, and other contaminants. In my own extensive experimentation, the process of vacuuming the cr*p out of the grooves as soon as it's been released by the cleaning surfactant is a critical functional response, and a record that has had a deep cleaning using surfactants, enzymes, and pure water followed at each step by a vacuuming produces markedly superior results to hand-cleaning and drying. I didn't used to think this was the case compared to manual cleaning, but the facts are..it is.

You will be amazed at the improvement this will make even in records that appear to be quite clean. It's as significant as replacing a major component in the amplification chain with a better one.
 
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As a general rule, the better the cart, the more it retrieves from the vinyl, noise included.

Well actually, the better the cartridge, the less noise you should hear.

I agree with Puma, your new AT probably needs to be worked-in a little, it'll probably smooth out at the upper frequencies. But you need clean records to begin with.
 
...if you're hearing a lot of surface noise ... your records are dirty ... to remove this noise you have to get them thoroughly clean. ... the process of vacuuming the cr*p out of the grooves as soon as it's been released by the cleaning surfactant is a critical functional response... and a record that has had a deep cleaning ...followed at each step by a vacuuming produces markedly superior results to hand-cleaning and drying.

I will just repeat for emphasis from my above post (#20) that if you don't have a RCM it is still worth manually vacuuming after washing rather than towel drying, even with the microfiber cloth. I use a shop vac but I think an ordinary vacuum with the head/nozzle protected with a microfiber cloth (I attach the cloth with an elastic band and just change the cloths as they get a bit too wet) would probably still be better than just hand drying with the cloth. RCMs gotta be easier, and depending upon how keen I get on vinyl I might go there, but for now I am a convert to the wash-vacuum even tho doing it manually requires some time and effort.
 
Well actually, the better the cartridge, the less noise you should hear.

I agree with Puma, your new AT probably needs to be worked-in a little, it'll probably smooth out at the upper frequencies. But you need clean records to begin with.

I was going to say that, too, but figured I'd get beat up for it.
 
I have heard that the original Jethro Tull pressings were fairly poor. So don't place too much significance on how that particular album sounds.
 
I will just repeat for emphasis from my above post (#20) that if you don't have a RCM it is still worth manually vacuuming after washing rather than towel drying, even with the microfiber cloth. I use a shop vac but I think an ordinary vacuum with the head/nozzle protected with a microfiber cloth (I attach the cloth with an elastic band and just change the cloths as they get a bit too wet) would probably still be better than just hand drying with the cloth. RCMs gotta be easier, and depending upon how keen I get on vinyl I might go there, but for now I am a convert to the wash-vacuum even tho doing it manually requires some time and effort.

Yes, it is the vacuuming that is key here to successful cleaning, in my experience.
 
Certain damaged old records in my collection are unlistenable with an AT440MLa, yet sound fine with a Denon DL-160.
 
usually the finer profile tips ride lower in the groove and are suseptible to areas of wear and debris in the groove that a larger profile tip usually avoids reproducing...for preowned records or well used records its sometimes less distracting to use a good budget elliptical or spherical stylus with a slightly larger radius that sits a bit higher in the groove...and trade a bit of the high frrequency resolution for a bit less surface noise...many records simply don't have much musical content above 15 khz anyway and human hearing above 20khz is probably the priviledge of a select few under the age of 18..
 
There have been a few references in this thread to a MicroLine stylus tracking lower in the groove or getting below the damage, but such a stylus profile actually contacts the groove wall above, below, and including the spot where a typical conical or elliptical stylus tracks. This extended vertical contact area keeps stylus pressure low despite the narrower front to back radius of the diamond; properly aligned, this can reduce record wear and extend stylus life, but it does not necessarily avoid previously damaged parts of the groove wall. This link shows pictures of an elliptical and a MicroLine stylus sitting in the groove. They are the same pictures I see in a 1995 brochure from Audio Technica. http://www.turntablebasics.com/cartridges.html

The most popular cross-section for a stylus has been .7 mil, whether as a .7 mil conical or any of the .2 X .7 mil, .3 X .7 mil, or .4 X .7 mil ellipticals. If I'm understanding this correctly, that means that with the same cross section these will all ride at about the same height along the groove wall. With its broader cross section, a .2 X .8 mil elliptical might ride above a previous wear pattern; a .6 or .5 mil conical or a .3 X .6 mil elliptical might ride below the wear; but the extended vertical contact area of a MicroLine stylus could well contact previous groove damage almost anywhere it was made, as indicated in the Stereophile footnote I referenced above.
 
Certain damaged old records in my collection are unlistenable with an AT440MLa, yet sound fine with a Denon DL-160.

I have a few different carts and rate them for surface noise like this from worst to best:

Goldring 1012 GX = Really highlights surface noise for some reason, has an elliptical stylus and sounds great but only good for my best albums.

Denon DL-110 = Has a special elliptical diamond stylus and is pretty quiet on noisy albums.

Grado Blue = Has a special elliptical diamond stylus and is quieter on noisy albums than the Denon but I suspect this is partly due to it having rolled off highs making the noise not so noticeable.

Benz Micro Ace = Has a special elliptical diamond stylus. Way ahead of my other carts in sound quality and oddly enough the quietest as well, it's amazing to hear the sound coming out of such a black background, which means you can have high quality and low noise at the same time.


One thing not mentioned here is setup, is the the OP setting up his new cart properly, VTF, VTA, alignment etc. It makes a big difference to the sound.

Also there is that loading issue that can really highlight the high end in some carts.
 
wrong cartridge!

That Audio Technica is in very good MM cartridge! Personally, I don't think you can have "too good" of a cartridge, but a top quality transducer like the AT440MLa will reproduce everything on the record.

They discontinued my cartridge, the AT440ML/OCC, and replaced it with the AT440MLa. It's confusing, I know. But the MLa is much less expensive and does not have the same specs.
 
just got it; not broken in

The AT440 is described as a pretty bright cart and takes awhile to break in and settle down , so I read on here. So some hours of use may help tame the noise a bit , but a simple diy cleaning system would also help with the old vinyl . I do have some older used LP's that no amount of cleaning will repair , they must have been played with a nail , the sound of bacon in the pan .

Yes, "breaking in a cartridge" is a concept that I have just come to. I am in the process of doing that, so maybe things will change in a week or so.
 
very good point

One is hyper elliptical, the other conical (I think). They are contacting different parts of the record. The 440 will often "get below the damage" but in the end it depends on where the damage is. For the larger problem to be down deep like that is unusual. I would suspect (if this is used vinyl) that a previous cleaning attempt went badly and forced gunk into the bottom of the grooves. I would try a good soak and clean on the record.

repeated cleanings may do good things. I am also breaking in the cartridge, which could also make a big difference.
 
clarification

....

Additionally, it could also be that your stylus from your old cartridge is not as good as the stylus on the A-T with respect to resolving musical detail. This could be due to the fact that the stylus is worn, or the design of the new A-T stylus is superior at resolving detail. Any cart mfr will tell you that it all comes down to the stylus, it's design, mass, tip configuration, orientation, etc. with respect to the cartridge performance. The carts in many mfr lines are identical except for the stylus. For example, the Grado Prestige 1 Black, Green, Blue, Red, Silver, and Gold carts: they are all the same cartridge except that they have better styli and tighter tolerances as you go up the model line from Black to Gold.
...

I am really grateful for most of what you said as it is very insightful. I should have stated early on what the "old" cartridge was. It is a Signet (made by A-T in the 70's and 80's) and I just put a new stylus on it that has a shibata needle. So it's not worn. But I think that the Signet (model TK3e) was also an "introductory high-end" cartridge - that is, the Signet was their high end stuff, but this was the bottom of the line model.
 
The Audio-Technica AT 440 MLa and AT 120 E/T need around 30-40 hours of break in time before they open up and the brash treble goes away. After break-in they aren't as bad about surface noise. The old Signet line is no slouch either.
 
I am in broad agreement with what others have said and that you need to let your cartridge break in properly. My Ortofon MC20FL has had about 60 hrs of use and it still sounds as if it needs more. I also have a Moth RCM cleaning machine, it works absoloute wonders on dirty vinyl but cannot rescue a poor pressing or groove damage. Expensive, I will admit, but worth it if you have lots of LP's. Incidentally, I have an early(ish) copy of Aqualung and in spite of careful cleaning noise is still present, whether wear or a bad pressing is to blame I cannot say but I must again point out that deep cleaning is not always sucessfull.
 
Newbie comment, please ignore if you like.

1.4 g is what Audio Technica says for this cart. I found that increasing the tracking force by a small amount-- 1.25 to 1.4 or 1.4 to 1.6 g reduced the noise quite a bit.

My first instinct was to track at the lowest end of the specified range for a cart, maybe I was skip-jumping at lower force settings and the mid to higher end of its range kept me in the groove.

Line-contact or similar tip shapes are the most sensitive to VTA, and if the angle is tilted too far one way you can get worse HF noise or lose HF extension if it's tilted the other way.

Fortunately my new PX-3 can change arm height on the fly.

Koseltri's PS-X555ES biotracer can even change VTF on the fly with a LED readout! Fun and great sound there.
 
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You should keep to the median or recommended tracking force or even a little higher. Too low can result in mistracking and vinyl damage.
 
too little tracking force causes damage?

You should keep to the median or recommended tracking force or even a little higher. Too low can result in mistracking and vinyl damage.


I never would have guessed that. Please tell me how. I would have thought that excessive weight would cause MORE wear on the vinyl. But not the other way around.
 
I never would have guessed that. Please tell me how. I would have thought that excessive weight would cause MORE wear on the vinyl. But not the other way around.

You're right that all else being equal, there is more wear with increased tracking force, but Hakaplan mentioned vinyl damage caused by mistracking, which is a different and, in my opinion, more destructive concern. It takes a certain amount of tracking force to allow the stylus to faithfully follow the wiggles in the groove, maintaining contact with the groove walls. When it can't, when the going gets too tough, the stylus will momentarily lose contact, then crash back into the groove wall with excessive force, damaging the vinyl, not just causing normal wear. A cleanly tracking cartridge will take a long time to wear out a record; a mistracking stylus can permanently damage a record in one play.
 
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