Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
It's actually a variation of a "bi-radial" horn... like a rectangular version of the JBL 2344, in rough terms.
Maybe not quite as uniform off-axis as some of the PT Waveguides... but a very good performing horn, nonetheless. And it will "support" frequencies lower than the PH612... bigger mouth, slightly longer length, which can be good when using larger woofers (like 15")...
Regards,
Gordon.
juniorJBL
SUB 1500 :)
Finally got the ewaves setup in my almost finished 2 channel room.
Equipment that I am using: McIntosh MC-602 Adcom GFP-750 Sony CDP 650esd.
These are very open and well balanced. Imaging is wide and uncompromised. You can sit in a wide variety of places and get the full effect. The LE14h-1 as expected is stellar in its reproduction of lows and low mid. The highs are somewhat harsh but it is not the fault of ewave design itself it is just a $40 driver that does the best it can for the price point.
At this point I can only compare them to my B&W Signature 800's as this is my only other pair of speakers setup at this point.
Not very fair to compare a $20,000 highly refined pair of speakers to a $600 pair of DIY.
I will say if I was to have a pair of JBL or TAD high-end comp. drivers these would probably fair very good in comparison to the 800's.
I would also like to say that the sound-stage is nothing short of superb. They truly are a very wonderful pair of speakers that deserve all praise of speakers costing 2-3 times their cost if not more.:yes:
Gooooo Ewaves!!!!
Equipment that I am using: McIntosh MC-602 Adcom GFP-750 Sony CDP 650esd.
These are very open and well balanced. Imaging is wide and uncompromised. You can sit in a wide variety of places and get the full effect. The LE14h-1 as expected is stellar in its reproduction of lows and low mid. The highs are somewhat harsh but it is not the fault of ewave design itself it is just a $40 driver that does the best it can for the price point.
At this point I can only compare them to my B&W Signature 800's as this is my only other pair of speakers setup at this point.
Not very fair to compare a $20,000 highly refined pair of speakers to a $600 pair of DIY.
I will say if I was to have a pair of JBL or TAD high-end comp. drivers these would probably fair very good in comparison to the 800's.
I would also like to say that the sound-stage is nothing short of superb. They truly are a very wonderful pair of speakers that deserve all praise of speakers costing 2-3 times their cost if not more.:yes:
Gooooo Ewaves!!!!
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It'd be interesting to try a pair of D2500Ti-Nd Seleniums at this point. Lower distortion, according to the spec, from the same diaphragms....
HatchetJack
Chillin' The Most
2 or 3 times over the last 7 months of listening to my hpm 100/D220Ti versions I have noticed some harshness or like someone said "fizzyness" Turns out the L pads need adjusting up as the woofer seems to be playing its highs on top of the waveguide. I know it sounds backwards but just last night I adjusted up again as I felt it sounded harsh. Now the L pads are at about 2:00 as they have broken in. I think they started out at about 11:00 in the beginning. Back to sounding great again with the preamp set to flat. BTW, I upgraded to a Marantz 250m from a 2250b receiver. More wpc really woke up those hpm woofers. They are now much crisper and less boomy. I just cant imagine that it gets much better than this:thmbsp:
juniorJBL
SUB 1500 :)
It'd be interesting to try a pair of D2500Ti-Nd Seleniums at this point. Lower distortion, according to the spec, from the same diaphragms....
I may think about it...... My issue with this is if I spend the money towards those then I am short that amount towards a possible pair of 2452h-sl's.:yes:
But......... I would also like to know how that driver sounds. If nothing else to maybe find a driver that sounds really good at far less cost then High-end drivers.
Anyone got a loaner pair?
They're a slam-dunk match for the 6" PT waveguide; see the silly Bose 301 upgrade:
Hmmm. I got a set of four Bose 601 woofers... Ewave MTM? With the 6" flare, it might work...
Regards,
Gordon.
juniorJBL
SUB 1500 :)
Yes it was me but waiting for the funds from the church. We need front fill. Ewave is the way we will go for sure. 220ti just right for this application.
As far as only one pair I have no intentions to build just one pair need to free the world from bad sound.
I expect you saw this:
6" goes in the PE stock 0.38 or 0.5 CF pre-finished cabs, 8" fits 0.75 CF.
Even using D2500Ti-Nd, they're WAY under factory cost.... :yes:
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jackgiff
Well-Known Member
Lot's of talk about better HF drivers, and some people are trying other ones. Some E'Waver's are enthralled by the B&C DE250, but just having finished a project using that driver, I think the BMS 4550 or 4552ND would be the better bet by far. Their mylar diaphragm sounds so smooth, and still goes to 20 KHz, although there is some breakup at the upper limit.
I have built three pairs using BMS, but none of them are EconoWave's. Why doesn't someone try doing an E'Wave using a pair of them? They are SWEEEET!
Edit: While the two mentioned BMS drivers are bolt mounted, the 4540ND is threaded, so will screw on to the JBL and Pyle waveguides recommended.
I have built three pairs using BMS, but none of them are EconoWave's. Why doesn't someone try doing an E'Wave using a pair of them? They are SWEEEET!
Edit: While the two mentioned BMS drivers are bolt mounted, the 4540ND is threaded, so will screw on to the JBL and Pyle waveguides recommended.
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juniorJBL
SUB 1500 :)
I expect you saw this:
6" goes in the PE stock 0.38 or 0.5 CF pre-finished cabs, 8" fits 0.75 CF.
Even using D2500Ti-Nd, they're WAY under factory cost.... :yes:
Yes that was over on my thread on LHF. I was thinking a driver from PE but the JBL was not very expensive and was designed for that application.
I also have a pair of the 6X6 WG's to play with. :yes:
BMS is where all of this started a couple of years ago, right, Jack?
The prototype eWaves were built by AKer Mxlews using BMS, documented in this forum, based upon earlier work by Jack and myself with Altec Valencias, also posted here, and that served as motivation to find a more "Econo" solution.
The economics are still valid today; BMS 4550 and 4552Nd are more again than the cost of DE250, and 4540Nd intermediate, but still more, though I haven't checked the BMS pricing lately....
One, two, you know what to do....
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juniorJBL
SUB 1500 :)
Thanks for this info Jack!!
I found this http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80666
Looks like the 4540 is the ticket...... But where do I get them?:scratch2:
I really wanted to try the JBL2452 sl's but if you can find them they are not cheap.
From what I can find >1k a pair.I really like the JBL WG as it fits very nicely in most applications.
Just skimming the surface as far as learning the in's and outs of how all this works and the design end of things. It really does intrigue me. It will take some time for me to learn but isn't that part of the fun?
With deep-cone JBL 2214H-1 rear-mounted, the forward axis is 5.25" above waveguide center at 44" mic distance:
Based upon experience with the 10" DC250, I have ordered custom 3/4" MDF speaker rings to similarly recess the 12" drivers and conveniently mount them to the rear of the baffle using T-nuts.... :yes:
Based upon experience with the 10" DC250, I have ordered custom 3/4" MDF speaker rings to similarly recess the 12" drivers and conveniently mount them to the rear of the baffle using T-nuts.... :yes:
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jackgiff
Well-Known Member
Yes indeed. The two pairs of Altec Valencias that were converted to BMS drivers are still providing tunes in my bedroom. And the pair of Altec Santana's that use the other pair of BMS are still my computer speakers. Great way to listen to Microsoft's sign in. All of the BMS drivers I have are bolt on versions. But the screw on probably will sound different than the bolt on, just as the Selenium's sound different depending upon mounting. A pair of 4540ND's on the JBL waveguides may be audio nirvanna. Somebody should try them out while I finish my HT rears speakers..BMS is where all of this started a couple of years ago, right, Jack?
The prototype eWaves were built by AKer Mxlews using BMS, documented in this forum, based upon earlier work by Jack and myself with Altec Valencias, also posted here, and that served as motivation to find a more "Econo" solution.
The economics are still valid today; BMS 4550 and 4552Nd are twice again the cost of DE250, and 4540Nd intermediate, but still more, though I haven't checked the BMS pricing lately....
Usspeaker.com lists the 4540ND at $124.95, and the 4550 at $147.95. That seems resonably close to the price of the DE250 doesn't it?
Edit: OK, tomorrow I will order a pair of 4540ND's, but it may take several weeks to finish testing them, due to other projects.
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juniorJBL
SUB 1500 :)
Cool!! Will you get me a pair too.......
I will order a pair as well. Might have to be a "you will not get any allowance for 2 months" kinda thing.. (Just bought a Rotel RSP 1570 and a RMB 1575 need to move some of my other amps to the 2 channel room) My wife is going to think I have lost my mind.:yes:
It will really be something worthwhile I think. Like I said above comparing to a pretty high end speaker but this 2 way thing really has my attention. I have also always been a cone guy so this horn thing has got me thinking that it can be really great if done properly.:yes:
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
JBL 6" in LS3/5A sized cabs
with my favorite vintage midwoofer the B110. I have D220Ti on these at the moment. Running a combo of Ewave XO on the bottom and AC16 XO on the top with Lpad. The low lows are handled by subs.
with my favorite vintage midwoofer the B110. I have D220Ti on these at the moment. Running a combo of Ewave XO on the bottom and AC16 XO on the top with Lpad. The low lows are handled by subs.
juniorJBL
SUB 1500 :)
I bet those sound pretty good Bauhausler! Have you measured them? what is the intended purpose of these, Near field, Bookshelf?