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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Zilch said:
Yes, but I'd use a single and the 6" square waveguide. Paired woofers, you'll want to run one of them in "0.5" mode which extends the bass, but does not increase the midrange efficiency.
Click to expand...

I think I really want to go with the two woofers. What would you suggest as a low pass frequency for the .5? Would it be as simple as adding a low pass filter in series with the second woofer (after the E-wave crossover)?
 
rhubarb9999 said:
I think I really want to go with the two woofers. What would you suggest as a low pass frequency for the .5? Would it be as simple as adding a low pass filter in series with the second woofer (after the E-wave crossover)?
Click to expand...
Yes, under 200 Hz. Assuming you've got the 8-Ohm versions, but a 10 mH inductor in series with the "helper" woofer, #266-580. #266-946 has lower DCR, but is twice the price.

4435 used 18 mH, as I recall, but your LF rolloff is more like an octave higher.... :yes:
 
Hey Zilch, or anyone else that has one, could you please give me the physical size measurements of that JBL 338800-001 guide? I want to check the measurements on my baffles, but I can't seem to find a technical drawing of it anywhere.

I see a price for them. I see them at $10? But you said they were now $110?
 
similost said:
Hey Zilch, or anyone else that has one, could you please give me the physical size measurements of that JBL 338800-001 guide? I want to check the measurements on my baffles, but I can't seem to find a technical drawing of it anywhere.

I see a price for them. I see them at $10? But you said they were now $110?
Click to expand...
That's the 1" thread-on "Econo" version, not the part number I just posted for you.

Both are 12" x 6.5".... :yes:
 
Yes, that's the standard eWaveguide.

The 1.5" bolt-on better-made version as shown in Duffinator's thread is the other number I gave you here, #338650-001.
 
Oh crap.. some how I missed that number. Thanks for posting that again. I would have messed that one up..

And now after rechecking the dimensions of the woofer, I'm not gonna have room, unless I take off some of the lip on the horn. Looks like maybe about 1/4" per side top and bottom...
 
Simi, the 338650 are a cast alluminum(at least I think thats what it is) so it might be easier to just grind out the bottom (sort of curved) if at all possible to get it to fit around the woofer. I know theres a post of the idea somewhere here that others have had to do with the econo waveguides
 
I'm actually starting to look at the TD12M instead of the 15. I would lose 3db on the 1wspl, but I guess I could live with that. I'm sure a little smaller cone would also be a little easier to move, hence maybe a little better sound?

Hell.. I don't know, but I think I better before I go slamming out $600 for a pair of drivers... This project is very quickly becoming a lot more complicated than I would have imagined.. I read some, but evidently I ain't read enough..

Here's the parms on the 12
T/S Parameters:
FS: 33.3Hz
Qts: 0.25
Vas: 176L
Z: 8ohm
1WSPL: 95.8dB
Pe: 500W continuos

and here they are on the 15..
T/S Parameters:
FS: 34.7Hz
Qts: 0.33
Vas: 312L
Z: 8ohm
1WSPL: 98.0dB
Pe: 500W continuos

I am imagining reading that, I will be doing better with the 12" in these boxes anyway? Interior 18Wx16Dx23.5H
 
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similost said:
Well.. I've already decided the 36's have kicked the **** outta my Altecs as far as full range eveness with less holes in the sound, and a better top end, but I'm still gonna keep those around for any heavy duty R&R high pressure listening I need to do.. I gave them a listen the other night, and you just can't beat the slam of that whole rig...

I didn't realize the -3 was also butyl. Interesting.. and then now here comes a newer version it sounds like, the -4.. wonder if those are any easier to find?

Thanks for the part number for the waveguide. That was going to be one of my next questions was what to get for those particular drivers to fit on..
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If you build what you're talking about you won't need the Altec's for R&R. Your new speakers will kick their butt and as Zilch likes to say "play stupid loud". :yikes: You'll be able to sell the Altec's to cover much of the cost of your new speakers.

Glad to see you're moving forward with the project.

Zilch, so the LE14H is > or < LE14H-1? And what about the LE14H-4? Are not all the LE14's a continuum of development?
 
Yeah.. I'm working on it right now Duff.. got the Bozaks fron the Barzilays sold, but right now trying to figure out what is going to fit the baffles of these. I got no idea why your baffles look so much bigger than mine. You have a 14" driver with a lot of extra space, yet a 15 and the guide don't quite get it.. :scratch2:

I'll be selling the JBLs but I don't know, Altecs are a beast all their own that is just so hard to let go of..
 
The Barzilay's get their volume from their width and depth, not their height. I'd use LE14A's and not think twice about it. If you have new surrounds installed it will be 15 years until you have to think about it again. Then you can take your time and look for one of the other LE14 variants and they will be a drop in replacement. The LE14A's are plentiful, sound terrific, and are always in demand so you can easily sell them later if you upgrade.
 
Yeah.. I keep thinking about that duff.. but I really don't want to mess with refoaming, and wonder what kind of shape the VC is in and such, and don't want to try and spend the time and waiting to find a new pair, so am really looking at the Lambda drivers. I keep hearing great stuff about them
 
similost said:
I'll be selling the JBLs but I don't know, Altecs are a beast all their own that is just so hard to let go of..
Click to expand...
Id have too agree with that, the C36s are nice and either parted out or sold complete they should finance a big portion of this project, but you just gotta keep the VOTTS, I have not used my C36s in months and have thought about just getting rid of them myself, BUT parting with my VOTTS would keep me awake at nights for months, All Id keep saying to myself is WTF have I done, Nooooooo.
 
similost said:
I'm actually starting to look at the TD12M instead of the 15. I would lose 3db on the 1wspl, but I guess I could live with that. I'm sure a little smaller cone would also be a little easier to move, hence maybe a little better sound?

Hell.. I don't know, but I think I better before I go slamming out $600 for a pair of drivers... This project is very quickly becoming a lot more complicated than I would have imagined.. I read some, but evidently I ain't read enough..

Here's the parms on the 12
T/S Parameters:
FS: 33.3Hz
Qts: 0.25
Vas: 176L
Z: 8ohm
1WSPL: 95.8dB
Pe: 500W continuos

and here they are on the 15..
T/S Parameters:
FS: 34.7Hz
Qts: 0.33
Vas: 312L
Z: 8ohm
1WSPL: 98.0dB
Pe: 500W continuos

I am imagining reading that, I will be doing better with the 12" in these boxes anyway? Interior 18Wx16Dx23.5H
Click to expand...

WinISD says 4 cf is too big for the TD12M, it's happier with less than 1/2 of that. The 15M really looks like the best match for that volume to me.

Bill
 
similost said:
Yeah.. I'm working on it right now Duff.. got the Bozaks fron the Barzilays sold, but right now trying to figure out what is going to fit the baffles of these. I got no idea why your baffles look so much bigger than mine. You have a 14" driver with a lot of extra space, yet a 15 and the guide don't quite get it.. :scratch2:.
Click to expand...
That's because the LE-14's have that JBL "Sqircle" frame with the squared off sides. The big dimension is 14" O.D. but they are only 12-3/4" across the flats. Fits in places a 15 won't go. :yes:
 
aaaaahhhh... I understand the spacing Duff has then...

Thank you VERY much badmusician... So can someone explain to me how I decide about ports and sizes for these too? I really am so lost about understand how to figure out these kinds of specs. I read, and get so lost my head hurts and I give up.. Me and math are like gunpowder and a match.. I blow up and usually destroy more than I fix..
 
similost said:
Thanks for the info. yes, I do have several mixers with phantom power, so that part of the puzzle is set..
Click to expand...

If you've already got phantom power and a half-decent sound card in your PC than the PE or Behringer mic would be worth the $.

There are several good, free software packages you can use to get started, and you may never need more. I use all of these these for what they're good at:

1 - HOLMImpulse - Pretty easy to use considering its power, it gives you raw, gated or smoothed FR measurements, plus phase, distortion and impulse. Unlike some other freeware, you can store measurements in HOLMImpluse. Highly recommended - probably the best free tool for what you're trying to do.

2 - ARTA - three programs in one. ARTA does impluse and FR measurements several ways. Steps uses stepped sine waves for FR. LIMP is for measuring driver ipedance curves. Very useful tools, but curves cannot be saved in the free version.

3 - SynRTA - A decent, free real-time analyzer, nice for quick in-room FR. I find it a little awkward sometimes, it doesn't scale nicely to my wide-screen monitor, but it's otherwise easy enough to use.

4 - RoomEQ Wizard - originally intended for integration of subs into a surround system, but it can also do full-range frequency measurements.

Bill
 
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