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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Brett said:
There are factory replacement diaphragms in Ti for both drivers, so maybe they are bought in that way special order, or the dealer changes them out. When I bought my replacement phrams for the DE25, most sites showed the Ti as the replacement unit, and I had to be specific about wanting the poly only.

I have both the 25 and 250 but they are used in different systems so I don't know what the differences between them are beyond the datasheets. I may get around to doing independent measurements on them later as part of the final setup for the current (glacial) builds and do some extra measurements of the DE25 on the QSC 106 WGs.

However, if you decide you ever want to sell the DE25's, remember me as I have another design I'd like to build and the passive xover is designed for them.
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Hey Brett,
Interesting! I guess that would explain a lot diaphragm wise.

Having never owned the DE250's, I'm a little in the dark as far as comparisons go but look forward to running the DE25's out with my 18sound XT 1086 horns. Coming up with a tuned x-over, blind, is a bit of a problem also as you can well imagine. The purchase of testing hardware/software is not in the cards at the moment so they will be sitting on the shelf for a spell unfortunately.

RC
 
Jcricket said:
With this, you could possibly even use a subwoofer as the bass and a nice mdrange to fill upto the 1.2k hz range.
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I would cascade the eWave 2-way XO after the woofer, instead.

That was the scheme commonly used in vintage JBLs.... :yes:
 
Yes, they don't sound good up where we need them to go. GordonW has a re-cone mod for K-22 (K?) which changes the profile and makes the woofer clean up high. Have not tried it, but perhaps he'll elaborate.

Jcricket said:
Hey folks, I have finally measured exactly the size of my cabinet, and found it is right at 3.5 cubic feet. Way too small for hte 16" woofers I was trying to use. I located a set of K-22 12" woofers. I can't find the tsp's on these - anyone know? ANyone every built an ewave with these woofers?
I should get them today or tomorrow and I'll install them at that time.

So anyone got a link or a copy of the theile small parameters for this woofer? I didn't find it on the klipsch site.

Edit,
I found my answer here. A quote from GordonW
"The K22 has a straight-sided (pure conic section) plain-paper (no coating or treating) cone, with a relatively un-damped fabric surround. This causes, sometimes, some bad breakup modes... sometimes well below 1KHz, in a 12" driver. The paper dustcap on most of these woofers also tends to "ring" a bit, which doesn't help either. Up to the factory Heresy crossover point (which is around 650 Hz, IIRC?) it's OK... but that's about as high as you can go, without response aberrations.
"
Bummer
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Yep, I have a "trick" setup, that seems to extend the "usable" bandwidth of these woofers, quite a bit. It's a curvilinear cone (bell-shaped), with a felt dustcap. Seems to pretty much always work, no matter what frame type I put it in. The "Hatu Project" speakers have woofers made this way... also, kbott here has a pair of Goodmans cabinets, with non-stock replacement woofers in them... turned out, they're also a pair of very similar woofers I built this way, that someone installed before he got the cabinets.

Anyone who got to hear my Seeburg DDS1 mod at the last AK Southern Fest- that's a 15" version of the same basic setup, in the two 15" woofers in each of those cabinets. They seem to behave themselves quite decently, up to around 2KHz...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
I am looking at changing the crossover just a bit on my ewave. The original post has two parts lists. One for woofer below 95db, and another for woofers above 95db. My current crossover is built for lower db woofers. As such the ewave lpad is at max output to be usable, but it is about right at that point. If I change the inductor in the low frequency section to 1mH and the cap to 18uf, will this be correct and center the xover roughly around the use of a 95db woofer? Hope that makes sense.
 
Jcricket said:
I am looking at changing the crossover just a bit on my ewave. The original post has two parts lists. One for woofer below 95db, and another for woofers above 95db. My current crossover is built for lower db woofers. As such the ewave lpad is at max output to be usable, but it is about right at that point. If I change the inductor in the low frequency section to 1mH and the cap to 18uf, will this be correct and center the xover roughly around the use of a 95db woofer? Hope that makes sense.
Click to expand...

The changes are in R1, R2, & C3. I think you are looking at the high efficiency version for the JBL LE14 which also changes C2 and L2 to move the LF roll-off down to 900 Hz.
 
I adapted the E wave and XO to an exisitng project and I have to say that I wont need another speaker for a long time.
I am using the Beta 10 tuned to about 43 hz.
I cross them over at 45 hz to two Dayton RS12 subs.

I just need it to warm up so I can apply some duratex and fab some grills.
774900860_U7RT7-XL.jpg
 
donprice said:
The changes are in R1, R2, & C3. I think you are looking at the high efficiency version for the JBL LE14 which also changes C2 and L2 to move the LF roll-off down to 900 Hz.
Click to expand...

Actually, I have no idea where my brain went - I think it is on extended vaction right now.
I built my crossover as a 4ohm version, thinking low efficiency/lesss than 95db. I used the .75mh and the 24uf cap. Sheesh, no wonder I can't get the bass to sound right.

Thanks for setting me straight. Now to order the right caps/inductors for the woofer, and I'll order the two other resistors and cap for the higher efficiency.

Somebody smack me - HARD!!!
 
Very cool looking. I've always thought the Beta and wave would be a good combo. Also if you get a cheapo third sub, it will get rid of most of the null and peaks in the sub range. I did this and it works great. Also look for the discussion of the foam plugs that Kegger made for the horns. they really help when you crank it up.
 
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Jcricket said:
Actually, I have no idea where my brain went - I think it is on extended vaction right now.
I built my crossover as a 4ohm version, thinking low efficiency/lesss than 95db. I used the .75mh and the 24uf cap. Sheesh, no wonder I can't get the bass to sound right.

Thanks for setting me straight. Now to order the right caps/inductors for the woofer, and I'll order the two other resistors and cap for the higher efficiency.

Somebody smack me - HARD!!!
Click to expand...

on the tweeter section, if the levels are correct with the lpad turned all the way up try removing it from the circuit and listen again.

examine wayne's fixed l-pad chart and note you are around 14db attenuation.

I don't understand the huge bypass cap for the compensation network for > 95db, after reading wayne's posts with his chart and his crossover document, I don't understand the need for such a big cap.

if you want to run an lpad and keep the ability to adjust the level of the horn I think you will need to do the xo as written for > 95db.
 
Well,
Quite frankly I have no idea where the levels are at. I am running an 8 ohm woofer on a 4 ohm designed ewave crossover. I suspect everything will change a bit when i get that corrected.

I ma ordering hte correct cap and inductors from pe today. In addition I am ordering hte stuff for the high filter circuit mods, should I need them.

MAybe no lapd would be correct too. I'll try that and see.
 
doucanoe said:
With all the ewaving going on here using many compression drivers, I thought someone might have a little background knowledge of this.

I picked up a pair of B&C DE25's not long ago and although I haven't opened them up to check, they reportedly have Mylar diaphragms. I was chatting with Russellc yesterday about them and his DE250's. I mentioned that I had checked out some european suppliers and they showed the DE250 as having Titanium. He said that his DE250's have Polyimide. I then checked Parts Express and they identify the DE250 as Polyimide also.


Anyone have experience with the DE25 and DE250 care to share what they feel the differences are between them. Also, the differences between these two diaphragm materials?

I'm guessing that that the DE250 w/Titanium diaphragm might be for European distribution possibly. That or the site info. may be incorrect :dunno:

http://www.cadaudio.dk/bcspeakers.htm



RC
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Its a misprint maybe? If you click on the PDF on the page, it specifies polymide.

Russellc
 
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Jcricket said:
Anyone ever try to do a three way ewave of sorts? I have asked this before and not gotten a definate yes or no. Here is a very high level idea of what i am thinking. The pupose is to open up the possibilities of what woofes a person could use.
With this, you could possibly even use a subwoofer as the bass and a nice mdrange to fill upto the 1.2k hz range.
Click to expand...

Eventually, I intend to try to add Wayne's Mid horn with a JBL 2123H 10 inch mid. someday!:sigh:

Russellc
 
123A crossover with standard ewave

Zilch;
I will be visiting my daughter in Idaho (I am in Canada)in a couple of days. I previously built speakers with 123A1 woofer and standard wave guide and D220ti.
I did not put together the X-over for lack of time.

From your post 9244 your low pass is C2=24uF & L2=1.5mH.
I see there is a considerable difference in values for the high frequency using the PRX guide from the regular guide.

My plan is to use your 123A1 lo-pass and try both variants of the high frequency. I have the components for both < and > 90 dB woofer.

Any alternate suggestions?

Thank you,

SheldonD
 
SheldonD said:
Any alternate suggestions?
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I just don't know, but would guess it's getting closer. As you see, we're all using more sophisticated design tools to close in on optimized lowpass filters for specific woofers in specific cabs. With interest in measurements growing in the forum, there's going to be more of this happening; it's the stuff of greater pleasures.... :thmbsp:
 
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