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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Excellent news. Thanks for sharing your Advent Ewave conversion experience. I think you'll continue to discover things to like about them. Some people take a while tinkering with the treble Lpad to get the balance right.
 
leadlike said:
If you're thinking about doing this and already have pretty decent speakers, you won't be floored by the difference, but you will come to enjoy just how subtle they are in improving your listening experience, and they are now going to be my main speakers for a long while now.
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It's sealing the woofers made the bass happen, and the waveguide's constant directivity filling your room with spacious, balanced, spectral response.

We need pics of your finished project posted here to make you an "Official" eWaver! :)
 
A well-flogged dead horse...

I finally got the trap cabinet configured with my arrangement of the Pyle/PE waveguide and the four 5.25" midwoofs (arranged 2M-T-2M) and made some measurements. Previously I'd tried this in a cardboard box test 'cabinet' and the results were murky because of the shaky box.

The results this time weren't so murky, just simply bad. The intention was that having smaller drivers close to the guide, and both above and below, would improve the vertical characteristics, and make the woofer pattern better match the tweeter's narrower vertical pattern. Measurements were made outdoors, over hard pavement (so there is a strong allison effect comb pattern)

First is a set of responses of the woofers by themselves, at 7.5 degree vertical steps, all normalized to the on-axis response. There is a notch forming below the intended ~1.5kHz crossover frequency range, and a response flying back up again (at 22degrees) right around the crossover point. Which is worse than a single larger woofer would give.

But the real fatal blow for this concept is in the tweeter curves. Something I hadn't paid enough attention to in other plots posted here by others -- the tweeter's vertical pattern control is nearly gone already above the crossover region. Vertical pattern control doesn't go as low as does horizontal control, it seems. So making the woofer's vertical match would be better met with smaller vertical dimensions, not larger!

I may still try to rescue the concept by the same driver set in a 2.5-way approach -- have only 1 set of woofers play into the midrange, which would provide a narrow center-center distance between midrange and tweeter to move out the vertical nulls. And let all four woofs play into the bass. I think that could be done by wiring woofers in series-parallel (horizontal pairs wired in parallel) and one of the parallel sets bypassed with a ~50uF capacitor. Should keep about the same response overall, but with the mids coming from just one row. Am I thinking that correctly?

Comments? Suggestions? (give up on the woof array and just wire in the 123A-1's?)
 

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bwaslo, I know we talked about this idea already but I misunderstood your goals.. I bet you'd do better MTM style. You could try MMTMM, but the center-to-center would probably be pretty big. However, MMTMM with a 2.5-way crossover might be interesting? I'm still working on the MTM/WTW e-wave idea I ended up on in http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=304969&page=2 and I think it just might work.
For an extra-crazy idea, you might be able to have side-by-side mids without ruining the whole e-wave horizontal dispersion idea if you crossfire them...
 
Dumptruck,

To clarify -- what I have is two 5 1/4 midwoofs side by side.
With a jbl/pyle/PE 612 waveguide below that.
And another two midwoofs side by side below the waveguide.
So the horizontal width is about 10.5" wide, and the vertical height (of the whole arrangement) 17".

I plan to try the 2.5way thing when I get time again.

Thanks, bwaslo
 
bwaslo said:
Comments? Suggestions? (give up on the woof array and just wire in the 123A-1's?)
Click to expand...

I would think having the two mid-only drivers arranged vertically would be better than horizontally or opposed (kitty corner?). Not sure if that was what you were planning already or not. Testing would confirm/deny.

Please work up a horizontal MTM (and/or WMTMW if baffle space permits) arrangement (HT center channel) and give it a test. Lots of questions on here about that arrangement but not much building/testing. A pair MTM for surrounds or whatever (using JBL 6x6 waveguide w/crossover above ~2kHz) may be what you end up with if you use the 123-1s for your mains anyway.

I love to spend other people's time (and money) to satisfy my curiosity :thmbsp:

Keep experimenting, measuring, and posting!
 
Quick question

Hey guys would a horn type enclosure work for the econowave treatment?
Would like to get the Selenium 220tis(on sale right now at PE) & Dayton waveguides ordered while I have $100 to play with.Heres a pic of enclosures.
Is it a go?
Thanks
 

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Robh3606 said:
Where the heck is the listening Axis??
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dumptruck said:
-8 degrees, obviously ;)
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They knew it, but didn't care -- it'd all smooth out in an imaginary reverberant field:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/...nal_ar_documents/the_sound_field_in_home_lis/

Figs. 6 and 7 are 15° families of the complete system, taken in a horizontal arc, first in one direction from the system axis, and then the other. The grill molding is in place, and the level controls are at maximum. It is difficult to assess performance because the output level changes rapidly not on with frequency but with small angular increments as well.
Click to expand...


[Heady days, they were.... ;) ]
 
Some early results of a 2.5Way Ewave

Here is the ewave I did with small woofer array in the PE trap cabinet. I added a 50uF capacitor across the lower pair of woofers so that only the upper pair would be involved at frequencies above about 400Hz. That seemed to work pretty well, vertical performance is way better behaved now below the crossover point. Plots were made indoors and show (in order): vertical curves going upwards, 7.5 degrees per step (0 to 30); going downwards, 7.5 degrees per step (0 to 30); and horizontal 15 degrees per step (0 to 60).

The vertical curves don't show the actual directivity, as I wasn't careful about keeping the distance constant from the mic for those. So don't look at much other than the shapes for the first two sets of curves. Small woofs close to the horn work pretty well for keeping the nulls out. Measurements were better controlled for the horizontals (there I moved the speaker rather than the mic), don't know why so much control appears down to low frequencies.

I plan to make new baffles with the same driver compliment, but with the ewave horn at the top so the speaker stands don't have to be so high. I'll also port the boxes to get the bass response more respectable (should go to about f3 of 47Hz instead of the 95Hz or so they do now). And obviously more crossover work is needed on this, but I'll wait till after reworking the baffles.

So, am I an official ewaver yet?
 

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Anybody Ewave Marantz Imperial 6G's yet?

I've got a pair and they seem like they might be excellent candidates...
 
Two way, a little larger in size than the ULA's. Here is a pic...

marantz6g.jpg
 
Parts Express is ticking me off

I've always gotten good service from them before but this time they slipped up. I ordered 4 Pyle PH612 WGs from them on 5/8 and they were to ship on 5/21. When they didn't come I checked and they were then backordered to 6/25. I just checked again and now the backorder has been changed to 7/24. I received no notice at any point that the merch, which is already paid for, would not ship. I just called and cancelled the backorder. I figure if they're going to move the date back a month every month they just aren't coming. I ordered the Dayton 270-318 instead. This is supposed to be equivalent. We'll see. If there are problems they'll go back. I'm not happy with their communication or service in this case and I let them know.
 
Bauhausler said:
I've always gotten good service from them before but this time they slipped up. I ordered 4 Pyle PH612 WGs from them on 5/8 and they were to ship on 5/21. When they didn't come I checked and they were then backordered to 6/25. I just checked again and now the backorder has been changed to 7/24. I received no notice at any point that the merch, which is already paid for, would not ship. I just called and cancelled the backorder. I figure if they're going to move the date back a month every month they just aren't coming. I ordered the Dayton 270-318 instead. This is supposed to be equivalent. We'll see. If there are problems they'll go back. I'm not happy with their communication or service in this case and I let them know.
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I've got a set of both. They look pretty much identical to me. I've lost track of which was which.
 
I'll bet they are identical, and I'd guess that the introduction of the Dayton version is the reason that Pyle's not delivering the PH612. Either PE is going to discontinue the Pyle part (why not?) in favor of their in-house part or the manufacturer quit making the Pyles to fill PE's order. I'm fine with either. I just wish it hadn't taken 7 weeks so far to get to this point.
 
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