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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

truth seeker said:
:scratch2:

Do you mean in the order of play? early/late? Please say more.
Click to expand...

I was not referring to psychological factors...but you have a real good point.
Acoustical memory is ... shabby. But unless measurements are taken with long periods for evaluation (ain't gonna happen,) showmanship might be important in the fight.

I was referring to placement within the room. I assume the demo rooms are nothing special, acoustically.

Wayne tells me that his systems work well in most rooms because he's using multiple subs at demos like this (Lone Star Audio Fest. is one example, I believe.)
http://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=12482&start=0&

The multiple sub approach documented ad infinitum, smooths the LF response.

I would say also, don't deny the toe-in. I find many audiophiles, I assume because of response characteristics of some dome tweeters --- maybe, point the speakers out parallel from the back wall. That will increase early reflections from the side walls. But bwaslo's home setup has no such issue. I'm saying he should set up the speakers as he would and not let anyone else do it.

We know what we're doin'.
:D
 
4343 said:
PL-000446-GP is the part number from the .PDF file @

http://www.qsc.com/support/library/schems/Current/HPR/HPR152i_WP-152000-XX.pdf

Click on any of the accessories to take you to their online store and enter the part number in the search box...:thmbsp:

I noticed they use the DE-200 on a different model speaker, has anyone compared that to the DE-250? Ti diaphragm, looks to be a little rougher FR (at the extreme top end), lower power rating, less $$$...
Click to expand...

Zilch said:
The advantage of the QSC 152i is that it incorporates an integral mouth roundover, accounting for its larger dimensions.

The disadvantage is that its taller vertical height results in a 1.75" increased center-to-center distance between it and its companion woofer, resulting in a shorter forward vertical lobe, other factors being equal.

Via minimizing the spacing between woofer and waveguide, and attending to aiming the forward axis of the two in combination in the crossover design, it is demonstrably possible to achieve a usable +/- 15° forward lobe (-6 dB) with a 12" woofer. Using a 15" woofer, likely somewhat less.

The QSC waveguides are available from QSC Pro Parts:

http://www.qsc.com/products/speakers/hpr/hpr152i.htm

The direct link to the part is yielding "Under Construction" presently....
Click to expand...

Thank you both!
 
Midwest Audio Fest speaker competition

Alas, no Econowaveguide wins at this years' event. Some 40 or so pairs of loudspeakers competed, making for a long day. This event is becoming huge, I think they'll have to restrict entries next year or find a larger place to hold it.

Actually, everything on show, of all types, was pretty soundly outclassed by Don Keele's CBT Arrays that he demonstrated before and after his presentation on that subject. I can't say I've ever heard anything like that before out of a pair of speakers (if you can call many dozens of drivers "a pair of speakers"). It was fascinating and beyond impressive, but did put a damper on subsequent listening tests of other designs. At least it did for me. As in past inventions, Don is really on to something. Though I don't think the CBT arrays, as they are now, are anything I'll be able to fit into any listening room I'm likely to own!

Among the entrants, I would say that Truthseeker's Delites were probably the best sounding thing there, at least to my ears, but then I'm now somewhat tuned to waveguide sound and not much satisfied with cone/dome sound. A few of the winning speakers of the event I actually didn't like at all, couldn't see the appeal. My other entry (non-waveguide, an omnidirectional design) did a crash and burn when a power amplifier board inside one speaker chose that opportune time to die. There was guy who did a design using some Walsh drivers for another omni setup that sounded very good (far better than I remember Ohm F's, at least, sounding); I think he did win, and rightfully so.

Some of the woodwork on display was outstanding, it would have made a good show even for someone without hearing. A few designs were cosmetically....uh...."interesting". Clearly tastes vary a lot when it comes to loudspeakers.

All in all a good time, even if we didn't inspire a flood of new Ewave converts this year. I was still glad to come home with my ewaves again, even though they are a long way from being Don's CBTs. Maybe next year we can convince Parts Express to webcast the event!
 
A guy in town is selling 15" Altec VOT woofers. Any comments on how they'd do as ewave bottom ends? I'm not up on Altec stuff at all. Here in the midwest, there is little except Japanese speakers and Bose!
 
As seen in Dayton

4781624176_aa987663e3.jpg


The best photo so far, I'll get more

I guess there's no point in holding out for e-Wave #100

E-Waveresponse.gif


Earlier I stated the cab was tuned to 28-29 hz; Its more like 33-34 hz after checking.

See also: Post #'s
11211
11212
11230 home
11233 commentary
11240
11262
11274 cabinet details
11276
 
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Okay, getting some pictures of the 2226Hs soon.
What is the latest and greatest iteration of crossover for this woofer? I searched but didn't get a definitive answer.
 
Thanks for relating that!
Sounds like fun.
Sorry to hear about the bit of Murphy on your non waveguide entry.



bwaslo said:
Alas, no Econowaveguide wins at this years' event. Some 40 or so pairs of loudspeakers competed, making for a long day. This event is becoming huge, I think they'll have to restrict entries next year or find a larger place to hold it.

Actually, everything on show, of all types, was pretty soundly outclassed by Don Keele's CBT Arrays that he demonstrated before and after his presentation on that subject. I can't say I've ever heard anything like that before out of a pair of speakers (if you can call many dozens of drivers "a pair of speakers"). It was fascinating and beyond impressive, but did put a damper on subsequent listening tests of other designs. At least it did for me. As in past inventions, Don is really on to something. Though I don't think the CBT arrays, as they are now, are anything I'll be able to fit into any listening room I'm likely to own!

Among the entrants, I would say that Truthseeker's Delites were probably the best sounding thing there, at least to my ears, but then I'm now somewhat tuned to waveguide sound and not much satisfied with cone/dome sound. A few of the winning speakers of the event I actually didn't like at all, couldn't see the appeal. My other entry (non-waveguide, an omnidirectional design) did a crash and burn when a power amplifier board inside one speaker chose that opportune time to die. There was guy who did a design using some Walsh drivers for another omni setup that sounded very good (far better than I remember Ohm F's, at least, sounding); I think he did win, and rightfully so.

Some of the woodwork on display was outstanding, it would have made a good show even for someone without hearing. A few designs were cosmetically....uh...."interesting". Clearly tastes vary a lot when it comes to loudspeakers.

All in all a good time, even if we didn't inspire a flood of new Ewave converts this year. I was still glad to come home with my ewaves again, even though they are a long way from being Don's CBTs. Maybe next year we can convince Parts Express to webcast the event!
Click to expand...
 
Those look great and according to bwaslo sound as good as they look.
I'd like to know more about the cabs...did I miss some posts?

truth seeker said:
4781624176_aa987663e3.jpg


The best photo so far, I'll get more

I guess there's no point in holding out for e-Wave #100

E-Waveresponse.gif


Earlier I stated the cab was tuned to 28-29 hz; Its more like 33-34 hz after checking.
Click to expand...
 
Hi All, I have to build a pair of eWaves by the 22nd of this month. I have a pair of infinity cabs, Creadance woofers, no-name compression drivers, and QSC wave guides. Me and Ross will do some testing this week (hopefully) and determine the compatability of the components and determine where to start with the crossover.

The question I have is how bad would it be to mount the QSCs up on end. They would fit better that way and this is not for a serious listener. He is my nephew and does not have a sence of sound yet. His listening space is long and narrow. The speakers will be about six feet apart and his listening position is ten feet back.

What do you think? Cheers.
 
truth seeker said:
Earlier I stated the cab was tuned to 28-29 hz; Its more like 33-34 hz after checking.
Click to expand...
I haven't done much with my LF assist approach to coaxing bass out of Deluxe, but enough to have found that 30 Hz is too low in the smaller Dayton KD trapezoid cabs. Others have suggested 35 - 40 Hz tuning and assist for these; even still tuned to 30 Hz, 40 Hz assist is much more effective.... :yes:
 
djnagle said:
Hi All, I have to build a pair of eWaves by the 22nd of this month. I have a pair of infinity cabs, Creadance woofers, no-name compression drivers, and QSC wave guides. Me and Ross will do some testing this week (hopefully) and determine the compatability of the components and determine where to start with the crossover.

The question I have is how bad would it be to mount the QSCs up on end. They would fit better that way and this is not for a serious listener. He is my nephew and does not have a sence of sound yet. His listening space is long and narrow. The speakers will be about six feet apart and his listening position is ten feet back.

What do you think? Cheers.
Click to expand...

That would add another 1.5" to the center-to-center distance, narrowing down the center lobe. The proper listening height would become very narrow.
I have 'extra' D210Tis and 6.5" X 12" Dayton WGs you could try. That would give a much taller center lobe and be easier to mount. My QSC's are just sitting here because they require a big cabinet & I probably won't use them. I also have the breadboarded original Ewave XO I can take off of the DQ-10s. Why don't you take this stuff to fool with?
 
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