The Empire 208 reinterpreted: a modern twist on an old spinner

[RFGumby]

I have to apologize to any Empire 108 or 208 original fanatics who may be offended by this design/bastardization/re-interpretation. I assure you I/we went through a ton of mental iterations before it ended up being this "skeletal" design. I wanted to pay homage and make a top plate design with the shape of the original Empires and utilize a massive solid plinth, but truth be told, I was tiring of that design and I think there are other types of turntable designs that benefit more from that school of design. But that wonderful main bearing with the oil grooved spindle simply needed to be utilized in the best and simplest design we could come up with. One of Nate's design mandates, was to be able to use a 12" arm, and therefore anything similar in proportion to the original plinth was not really an option.
So we indirectly ended up at this design. Nate also wanted his table to be able to accept a Linn arm he has, so his second arm pod is ready to have that arm bolted on as well.

Nate piqued my curiosity when he mentioned he might be interested in offering up one 208 if I were to make double the number of parts so he could have one of whatever creation bubbled to the surface. Since I had been watching for an Empire for a long time with little success, this had my design juices flowing almost immediately. So there are actually two of these exact machines out there, I gave the other to a close friend for his hardcore plunge back into analog. So Nate provided the impetus and undying support and faith necessary for a successful project like this. They took about 5 months to make because I had to work through a few invention ideas in the process (neither of which worked out I might add). But the brass platter weights were an accident, and I never intended for it to be so Gyrodek-esque. But in frustration after a failed attempt at a dynamic physical speed control design I've been perfecting for a while, I just plain bolted the weights to one of the platters and it was so utterly fantastic at damping, we abandoned all other plans for resonance damping of the horribly ringy stock platters (epoxy based damping, mass, etc. were planned but deemed unnecessary).

The motor pod is simply a more modern material based isolation, with an eye kept towards functionality which was at least as good as the rather functionally elegant original arrangement. But as quiet as the Papst motor is, it simply needed to be isolated from the main bearing and tonearm, and passe as that design has become. We had considered a DC based motor pod, but it would have continued to stray so far from the original design, that sacrificing two stock 208's would have been sacrilege and just plain bad taste. To be fair though, they were Nate's to do with as he pleased, and he wanted his table to have some cool factor as well. I hope we succeeded.

I have one more revision for the footer assemblies, a design I tested last week on the other one of these tables. So I'll be machining up some discs for Nate's which help with the stabilization and leveling abilities of these decks. The other deck already has them and I'm very happy with the improvement in both performance and functionality. With that slight change, these two twins are complete.

[treserious]

any chance at seeing some plans and measurements?

some pics with the platter on and off would be cool, some more closeups as well.

[1koolcat]

I got to see this in person, in action and I am awestruck. What a great design and execution. It was pure poetry in motion.

Congratulations Scott and Nate.

[dokblues]

Nate you and Scott have Truly done an Incredible job of re-engineering one of my Favorite Tables!! OMG!!! That is without a Doubt one of the finest pieces of homemade Audio I have Ever seen! Truly Stunning!!! I Commend you both on your skills and dedication to such an endeavor!! CONGRATS!

[Big Bill]

Originally Posted by RFGumby

I just plain bolted the weights to one of the platters and it was so utterly fantastic at damping, we abandoned all other plans for resonance damping of the horribly ringy stock platters (epoxy based damping, mass, etc. were planned but deemed unnecessary) .

Hello Scott, I am truly awestruck by the ingenuity and aesthetic beauty of this creation! Congratulations on a job well done indeed!

I am looking for a solution for my Empire platter. Would you please tell me exactly what your "epoxy based damping" solution would have consisted of? Also, in what manner would one apply said damping material to the platter as to avoid throwing off it's "legendary" balance?

Thanks, Bill.

[ZebraBlvd]

Outstanding Nate, just outstanding. My hat is off to Mr. Scott for his unique design and craftsmanship.

[empirelvr]

Originally Posted by RFGumby

I have to apologize to any Empire 108 or 208 original fanatics who may be offended by this design/bastardization/re-interpretation.

As one of those "fanatics" (I mean...look at my name! lol) all I can say is I am BLOWN AWAY by your mods! Damn, that thing looks GORGEOUS!! I wish I could see it, touch it, and hear it!

Fantastic reinterpretation of the 'table.

*jealous!!!*

[empirelvr]

Originally Posted by Big Bill

Also, in what manner would one apply said damping material to the platter as to avoid throwing off it's "legendary" balance?

Thanks, Bill.

Hey Bill,

I had great luck in applying mortite around the inside of the platter inside it's outermost periphery. It sticks well and I was able to "balance" the platter easily by carefully making sure I didn't overlap any of the mortite, and kept it in one continuous piece. (Aside from where both ends met.)

That plus the stock mat killed any ring completely. Best part? Cheap to do and totally reversable.

[RFGumby]

Originally Posted by Big Bill

Hello Scott, I am truly awestruck by the ingenuity and aesthetic beauty of this creation! Congratulations on a job well done indeed!

I am looking for a solution for my Empire platter. Would you please tell me exactly what your "epoxy based damping" solution would have consisted of? Also, in what manner would one apply said damping material to the platter as to avoid throwing off it's "legendary" balance?

Thanks, Bill.

Hey Bill-

There is a 3M product which is a 2 part epoxy based hardening damping agent: 3M DP-105 . Works great and self levels. Not very cheap though. A "Normal" platter will require about 6 fluid ounces. I've heard of people adding brass shavings to it, but if the shavings weren't extremely consistent, it might upset the balance- not that it really matters that much
<sorry, flagrant flame war provocation>. But in my opinion, I'd stick to just the resin and avoid any additives. Plus, as Empire Lover has mentioned,
the mat helps quite a bit in reducing the also legendary 30 second platter ring. Remember, too damp is also not good. I'd say the 3M epoxy and a heavy platter mat would be a nice compromise.

Thanks for all the kind words guys, I'll check my archives for more detailed pics and learn how to upload or external host for posts here. I wasn't planning to add to my "web commitments", but AK has a lot of nice folks to visit with, so I'll have to learn how to post pics here and effectively manage my web time.

[Tube King]

Simply amazing.

[dnewma04]

Bumping for a rather special DIY effort. I can't believe this thing isn't getting more attention.

[Redboy]

Well, it's been getting a fair amount of attention at my place. I've been listening to more vinyl than ever before, and I don't see that changing!

Some more pictures of Scott's handiwork for you - here's another angle:

[Big Bill]

That thing is awesome! BTW where did the motor cylinder come from?

[ejfud]

An amazing piece of art.

I see you got the silver discs you guys played constantly with Friday installed.

[JohnVF]

That's one of the coolest things I've ever seen.