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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Allen Organ Co. Find

Hello All:

Sorry to jump in here. I recently saved from the trash - a pair of Allen Organ Company HC-12 3-way monitors and a pair of A.O.C. HC-10 3-ways. Anyone familiar with either of these models? All are working, the 10's in a little rough shape.(cabs)

The 12's have a dome tweeter, dual 4" midrange drivers and 15' woofers w/foam surrounds- each with a small straight tear.(surround) Foam is thin and rather dry as well.

The 10's have a 3" paper tweeters, 6 1/2" midranges, and 15" woofers w/ pleated paper surrounds- very good condition.

Any specs to be had? Can either be used for SET? Bi-wire or Bi-amp possible? Thought I would at least save the woofers for future projects- the
10's might make a great Econowave system.

Would appreciate any advice,thoughts or help. Thanks!

Mark
 
Cheez-O-Wave

Well I had these Pyle wave guides & Selenium 220ti's sitting around for a future project.Needed a rainy day project yesterday so I stuffed them in some cheezy Marantz cabs I drug home awhile back for $10.They were a 3 way with a 10" woofer & passive radiator.Left the tweeters in as they are a sealed back.They dont sound to bad but dont go as low as would like.They are only rated to 40hz.Definately loud! Running them with a Proton D540 as pre & amp for horns, DOD active x over, Gemini P700 amp for lows.Only a temporary set up but was a fun afternoon project:yes:
 

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To be an Ewave or not to be...

...Is there a formal specification for the Ewave design somwhere in this seemingly infinite thread? I.E. Something like the "suggested spec" that Altec and others provided spec writers back in the good old days. ex An Ewave shall consist of a Selenium D220Ti HF driver (8 ohm nominal) mated to A JBL or Pyle polymer waveguide PN 1234 or 5678 respectively. Crossover shall be of the high level passive type utilizing the circuit of Jacklab/Zilchlab with the following components and values...............Any deviation from this specification shall be rejected for consideration as an Ewave design at the sole discretion of Zilch etc,etc,etc.

Reason I ask: I want to do something with my AR4Xs with fried tweeters and the JBL waveguide won't fit. The largest horn I choose to afford that will fit will need xover/comp mods to interface properly with the AR woofer. If I actually do the deed to the ARs and it's an Ewave, I'll post it here. If it's not, I'll post it elsewhere.
 
Hi, Steve!

The "Official" spec including the inexpensive 6" square and 8" square JBL waveguides is here:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1856214#post1856214

I recently did an AR4x mod with the 8" square one over on Tech Talk:

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?p=1654314#post1654314

The 6" will also work if you don't mind patching in a bit of the original tweeter counterbore.

We held pretty strictly to the original definition for the first year of EconoWave. Those who explored a broader scope of the concept, which Jack and I both encouraged here, received recognition as "Honorary E'Wavers." That included the very first build by Mxlews using BMS drivers, and Duffinator's stunning all-JBL Barzilay design. Similost's and other builds not meeting a strict reading of the spec are also listed and linked there.

During the second year, members expressed a desire that the scope of EconoWave be expanded to include a wider range of options than the original "entry level" designs, most notable among these being the B&C DE250 compression driver used by Geddes, Parham, and others, and from another forum, QSC waveguides. Jack and I both explored these in this thread, and considered whether they and other alternatives more expensive than the original concept might be incorporated within the "Econo" definition, and if not, how best to otherwise pursue meeting this desire. We agreed that expanding the concept to include a broader spectrum of options would be the preferred approach.

There is no conceivable manner via which Jack and/or I could ever ourselves fulfill the requirement of optimizing the core EconoWave design to incorporate such an expansion of scope and scale as is now apparent in the DIY community on many forums. Now well into its third year, EconoWave has become synonymous with off-the-shelf waveguide project design encompassing more degrees of freedom (and far greater success) than we ever envisioned.

From the very beginning, we have offered specific designs which anyone, even with minimum knowledge or skill, could successfully construct, but at the same time, and by the same token, a concept for those with more expansive interest and desire to explore. With this must come a recognition that these desired degrees of freedom can only be managed via a more sophisticated design process such as I have demonstrated in "Flex Your PCD Mettle":

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?t=215536

The answer then is, while the definition is expanding, and though what is or is not "EconoWave" for the purposes of this thread of necessity becomes a tougher call, rest assured that that we will embrace and acknowledge the efforts of all contributors to the continuing collaborative here.... :thmbsp:
 
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Ht

Zilch said:
Hi, Steve!

The "Official" spec including the inexpensive 6" square and 8" square JBL waveguides is here:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1856214#post1856214

I recently did an AR4x mod with the 8" square one over on Tech Talk:

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?p=1654314#post1654314

The 6" will also work if you don't mind patching in a bit of the original tweeter counterbore.

We held pretty strictly to the original definition for the first year of EconoWave. Those who explored a broader scope of the concept, which Jack and I both encouraged here, received recognition as "Honorary E'Wavers." That included the very first build by Mxlews using BMS drivers, and Duffinator's stunning all-JBL Barzilay design. Similost's and other builds not meeting a strict reading of the spec are also listed and linked there.

During the second year, members expressed a desire that the scope of EconoWave be expanded to include a wider range of options than the original "entry level" designs, most notable among these being the B&C DE250 compression driver used by Geddes, Parham, and others, and from another forum, QSC waveguides. Jack and I both explored these in this thread, and considered whether they and other alternatives more expensive than the original concept might be incorporated within the "Econo" definition, and if not, how best to otherwise pursue meeting this desire. We agreed that expanding the concept to embrace a broader spectrum of options would be the preferred approach.

There is no conceivable manner via which Jack and/or I could ever ourselves fulfill the requirement of optimizing the core EconoWave design to incorporate such an expansion of scope and scale as is now apparent in the DIY community on many forums. Now well into its third year, EconoWave has become synonymous with off-the-shelf waveguide project design encompassing more degrees of freedom (and far greater success) than we ever envisioned.

From the very beginning, we have offered specific designs which anyone, even with minimum knowledge or skill, could successfully construct, but at the same time, and by the same token, a concept for those with more expansive interest and desire to explore. With this must come a recognition that these desired degrees of freedom can only be managed via a more sophisticated design process such as I have demonstrated in "Flex Your PCD Mettle":

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?t=215536

The answer then is, while the definition is expanding, and though what is or is not "EconoWave" for the purposes of this thread of necessity becomes a tougher call, rest assured that that we will embrace and acknowledge the efforts of all contributors to the continuing collaborative here.... :thmbsp:
Click to expand...


Have not posted in sometime. Maynot really qualify as Econo Wave anymore however this is where I am at:

JBL 12" x 6.5" $10 waveguide and 4 Peerles 6 1/2" woofers on sale for $10 each at PE. 2way crossover. Down to finshing last main out of the LCR speakers and assembling the crossover. Due to time still could be 2 weeks out. Surrounds will start after these are finshed. I had someone design the crossover and such for me and help with the wood working.
 

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my89_928gt said:
Oh, CD area 220ti's.
Click to expand...
Those are very interesting designs, and will likely qualify as EconoWaves once they are complete and we know more of the details.

Several members are experimenting with line arrays, and truncated-frame drivers are a good choice for those tightly-packed alignments, as your center channel clearly illustrates.... :thmbsp:
 
I thought I was out of this eWave business once and for all. However, things change. CableGuy is coming over Saturday and we are going to build eWaves out of his EV Sentrys. They have the SP12 but I don't know what version. We will use the small 18 Sound 125CD and oval WG, and start with the stock eWave board and go from there.

So, the 18 Sound CD is recommended to cross at 2.5khz and I am not sure what to change on the eWave board to move the xover point....any thoughts???


The SP12 should be able to go that high without issue and it should make a neat install.
 

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djnagle said:
I thought I was out of this eWave business once and for all. However, things change. CableGuy is coming over Saturday and we are going to build eWaves out of his EV Sentrys. They have the SP12 but I don't know what version. We will use the small 18 Sound 125CD and oval WG, and start with the stock eWave board and go from there.

So, the 18 Sound CD is recommended to cross at 2.5khz and I am not sure what to change on the eWave board to move the xover point....any thoughts???


The SP12 should be able to go that high without issue and it should make a neat install.
Click to expand...

Hi Dennis....this is the driver in question..Marked as a PHT-416 8 ohm
 

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Hi Bill, I misunderstood Dave when I talked to him right after I talked to you. OK, I'll start looking for data.
 
Zilch said:
It's unlikely that SP12 will play high enough to mate with the XD125. Move up to the larger XT1086 and you may have a viable combination:

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?p=1638019#post1638019

XD125 is more appropriate for use with an 8" woofer.

I say it again: this cannot be competently accomplished without having measurement capability. Get set up and learn how to do it.... :yes:
Click to expand...

I sure would like to get set up doing some measurements but after not working for almost a year now, that will not happen any time soon.
 
Zilch said:
Hi, Steve!

The "Official" spec including the inexpensive 6" square and 8" square JBL waveguides is here:

<snip>
<snip>
<snip

The answer then is, while the definition is expanding, and though what is or is not "EconoWave" for the purposes of this thread of necessity becomes a tougher call, rest assured that that we will embrace and acknowledge the efforts of all contributors to the continuing collaborative here.... :thmbsp:
Click to expand...

So at the very least, I'm working on an Honorary Ewave and maybe even the real thing. Got some unrelated studying to do but I'm aiming for the end of Oct. to have something presentable.
 
my89_928gt said:
Have not posted in sometime. Maynot really qualify as Econo Wave anymore however this is where I am at:

JBL 12" x 6.5" $10 waveguide and 4 Peerles 6 1/2" woofers on sale for $10 each at PE. 2way crossover. Down to finshing last main out of the LCR speakers and assembling the crossover. Due to time still could be 2 weeks out. Surrounds will start after these are finshed. I had someone design the crossover and such for me and help with the wood working.
Click to expand...

Those are some really interesting design layouts. I've been discussing the same layout as the dual MTM and the consensus is the behavior will be very similiar to a single 8" driver and yet due to the reduced c to c spacing, improved vertical response. We'll have to wait for your results.
 
Still plugging away on my LE14A econowaves. Baffles are ready for veneer.....I'm way timid on this part. I decided since I've invested so much time on these I would go ahead and tune the existing cab using BB6 Pro. The program has optimized the port to 24.49Hz, but the Fs of the speaker is 28Hz. Is this right or am I BB6 illiterate? I want to double check this before I install the pieces which I've already cut. I plugged in everything it asked for and double/triple checked all the dimensions are correct. So I guess what I need to know is if it's normal to tune below the Fs specs of the speaker.
 
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