Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Both the two-module stack and 2235/B&C you two have mentioned sound like excellent candidates for a build. :thmbsp:

I can assure that combination will scratch the itch. I'm currently trying to get up to speed on measurement so I can create FDR and ZMA files for the 2235H. Then using PCD I can adjust the deluxe crossover to combine it and the B&C DE 250 properly.

Russellc
 
Hello all, there's a LOT of data to be had in this thread. And Zilch, my hats off to you sir. You seem to be everywhere at once. If a thread mentions e-wave or JBL, you seem to be there with answers. And for that I THANK YOU! I've been bitten by bug to build some E-waves. I picked up a pair of JBL D140f's, I can't seem to find T/s parameters on them. Any chance they could be E-waved? If not I may go for one of the proven builds.
 
And Zilch, my hats off to you sir. You seem to be everywhere at once. If a thread mentions e-wave or JBL, you seem to be there with answers. And for that I THANK YOU!
You are welcome, of course.

It's about passion for the hobby, and more readers are getting that of late; it's been a while since I've received a procedural warning anywhere. ;)

JBL T/S parameters are here:

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?docid=1075&doctype=3

There are better options than D140F for E-Waves; my personal preference is for 12" drivers rather than 15s....
 
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Yesterday I built a proper baffle for my square Econowave "dipole". It sounded great but somewhat aesthetically challenged. So I mounted my round dayton WG which I had for quite sometimes but too skeptical to investigate.

What a pleasant surprise (Dayton 10" Round WG + Selenium D220Ti)

01WG100cmrotate.png


It sounded great too. Highs are somewhat more rolled off than standard econowave.
 
Yesterday I built a proper baffle for my square Econowave "dipole". It sounded great but somewhat aesthetically challenged. So I mounted my round dayton WG which I had for quite sometimes but too skeptical to investigate.

What a pleasant surprise (Dayton 10" Round WG + Selenium D220Ti)

01WG100cmrotate.png


It sounded great too. Highs are somewhat more rolled off than standard econowave.

Depending on the woofer, you may be able to dial up a little more HF compensation. Maybe try a 25% bigger-value resistor, and 25% smaller-value cap, in the RC circuit?

Of course, that depends on the HF output being able to keep up with the woofer, with that change...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Thanks, Gordon!

I am going to run some LF tone through them for a while and re measure for T/S parameters. If I mount them on an open baffle, is that "good-enough" practice for measuring FR and distortion? I will be using Fuzzmeasure which is swept sine and can be gated.
Thanks!

That definitely looks like an RCF.

Not seen that model, but the construction is certainly consistent with many of the RCF 12" woofers frames we see here.

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Thanks, Gordon!

I am going to run some LF tone through them for a while and re measure for T/S parameters. If I mount them on an open baffle, is that "good-enough" practice for measuring FR and distortion? I will be using Fuzzmeasure which is swept sine and can be gated.
Thanks!

Open-baffle is fine for mid and high-frequency measurement (where the baffle is larger than 1 wavelength in each direction). For a valid measurement down to 300 Hz, you'd need at least a 4 foot x 4 foot square baffle, or so... for one example.

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Depending on the woofer, you may be able to dial up a little more HF compensation. Maybe try a 25% bigger-value resistor, and 25% smaller-value cap, in the RC circuit?

Of course, that depends on the HF output being able to keep up with the woofer, with that change...

Regards,
Gordon.

It's active, so a matter of coming up with shelf filter if I want to. The thing is I don't want to "compensate" the CD sound to mimic what I'm used to (domes)....
 
Yesterday I built a proper baffle for my square Econowave "dipole". It sounded great but somewhat aesthetically challenged. So I mounted my round dayton WG which I had for quite sometimes but too skeptical to investigate.

What a pleasant surprise (Dayton 10" Round WG + Selenium D220Ti)

01WG100cmrotate.png


It sounded great too. Highs are somewhat more rolled off than standard econowave.

Looks good too.......and with a more robust CD should hold good pattern control to 1khz.....where you'll need to cross it to a 10-12" woofer to minimize vertical nulls from the pretty long C to C distance.
 
The most heretical E-wave ever?!

I just did a bad, bad thing. :D

Actually, it wasn't bad... just the result of a rather bizarre decision on the part of the owner.

We got in a pair of THESE, with blown internal processor/amps:

http://www.jblpro.com/evo1/evoi_324.htm

595_F_sm.jpg


The customers (a church) didn't want to pay for new internal plate amps (they had serious problems- probably a lightning hit), and the sound guy for the church just decided to go "old-school"... have us convert the speakers to passive crossovers, and run an outboard power amp, outboard EQ, etc.

So, what did I do? Since I saw what looked suspiciously like a PT waveguide in there, and a 2431 driver (1.4" throat)... I thought "E-wave crossover?"...?

I built up a crossover (4 ohm woofer section, greater-than-95dB E-wave high section), to try it out. It's running as, essentially, a great big MTM. Yeah, I know... the dispersion is quite limited in the vertical direction... where it's installed in the church, it doesn't really need much vertical dispersion (I checked)...

Probably not too surprisingly, it sounded FANTASTIC. Unfortunately, I didn't have an original amp/processor to compare to, to see if it was better or worse than the original... but it really did sound good. I don't think they'll have ANY problem getting them to sound really good in the church...

So, this is probably the proverbial situation of going around your elbow to get to your nose... but it fit what they wanted (cheaper $ fix), and it sounds great. I don't think there's any losers here... :D

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Off my map 'cause the woofers and waveguide are integral with the baffle like EON, looks like.... :dunno:

900555/12235=73.6048​
 
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upgrading woofer in my econowaves : checking out the Eminence Delta 12LFA

Hi,

I've been greatly enjoying my econowave speakers this last year, but always thinking I could do better with the woofer, which was an inexpensive Ebay PA driver with very little information available about it. I could never get it to match up with the d220ti cleanly at the crossover point, and ended up using a simple first order LP as the best tradeoff.

Without buying the new drivers to measure first hand I've been playing around with software tools to using published data and a bit of guestimation.

Before I go the next step of actually buying drivers and bits, thought I'd post my ideas here to see if I'm heading in the right direction..

To keep using the existing MDF enclosures (which I quite like) I'm limited to 12" woofers that play nicely in 120.6L (or less) with 2 (or one if I block a port) 10cm bass reflex ports.
Also theres the actual size of the woofer rebate and hole fitting to take into account, some of the drivers which look really good would mean extensively reworking the rebate and repainting (the Beyma 12BR70 for example, which otherwise looks like it would be great).

The Delta 12LFA looks like it matches very well, and will drop in the existing cabinet with minimal modification. The T/S parameters indicate it will play very well with the 120L box I have with the existing ports.

I dont have a 12LFA to measure, so I used SPLtrace to make a .FRD file from the PDF specs, and used that with speaker workshop and the d220ti+PH612 measurements I already have. This is where the fiddle factor comes in, I didnt calibrate my measurements(they were relative to the woofer response done in the same session), so I've just scaled up my FRD response to look similar in magnitude to Seleniums published one... I'm also hoping the L-PAD adjustment makes this point largely moot anyway as it can be "dialled in".

With Speaker Workshop, bouncing around variations on the Ewave high efficiency crossover, etc, I've settled on a using a 3rd order LP so as to get a fairly steep cuttoff to tame the huge bump at 2K while stil keeping the rest of the response fairly flat.
I've also lowered the cuttof point on the HP so to suit.. (with a bit of smoothing), gives what looks like an OK result.
If I do get the driver I'll measure everything and may have to adjust values to suit reality, but I'm hoping it won't be too different and I can get results in the same area as these estimates with some component value tweaking:
LP : 1500Hz (3rd order)
HP : 2500Hz (I think??)

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info from Eminence: http://eminence.com/pdf/delta-12lfa.pdf

Photo of one of the actual speakers:
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Looks like that's going to work.

I've had very good results simming in PCD this year, so I'm a believer.... :thmbsp:
 
Looks like that's going to work.
I think I know what my Yuletide pressy to me will be now..
I've had very good results simming in PCD this year, so I'm a believer.... :thmbsp:
Had a quick look at PCD (the excel spreadsheet?) and it looked like its restricted to a set of fixed crossover layouts? Although SpeakerWorkshop has a frustrating user interface and some crashy bugs I like that I can lay out any circuit..
 
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