Review; Thiel CS3.6

I was in the market for new pair of speakers. I had just sold my Carver Amazings (low/no waf) and was looking for something better than my current speakers. My current speakers (and the ones I have kept for a long time and just sold) are Mordaunt-Short performance 860s. Very nice speakers. Non fatiguing metal dome and solid bass from such a small footprint. Beautiful resinrock piano black cabinets. They had everything a great speaker should have.. including a new retail of around 3,500 in the 90s. There was just something that was still missing.

My current rig is very basic actually. I have a boulder modified squeezebox that sends lossless files directly to my Edge M8 amp via audioquest cables. Speaker cables are Kimber 4tc. These aren't chosen due to any sort of great match, they are just what I have always had and used. No preamp you will notice.. I used the digital volume on my squeezebox.

I got a text message from ole' Dave Newman about some Thiel CS3.6's that Retro Stereo was selling at an incredible price. I bought them based on glowing reviews and the ears of a couple guys I trusted. At the price they were bought at, I couldn't lose a dime on them. I met Retro up on the border of MN and WI near LaCrosse WI. Beautiful drive. Got them home, got them in the house and hooked up. I fired them up and let them play for about 20 minutes while I unloaded the empty boxes and got everything stowed away.

I came back and sat down, and was VERY underwhelmed. I had heard twice that they were very uncolored, and accurate.. almost to a fault. I was kind of expected this. If I had been in an audio store I would have shut them down immediately and moved on, but I bought them! I was tempted to put them on Audiogon. I do know, however, that I tend to take awhile to adjust to major changes. Some people call it equipment break in, I am breaking in my ears.

I sat down the following day and started listening to a few tracks I was familiar with. I was seeing the potential for great sound. I suspected they may be very sensitive to positioning. I sit about 14' feet back from my speakers and they are 7' apart. I measured the position off of the back wall and used that to get the toe in identical. They are about 20" off the back wall. I haven't experimented with moving them forward or back yet. There is an open area behind my seat because I have a split entry house that goes back another 8' behind me.

I stared with the speakers aimed straight out, no toe. Sounded pretty darn good, but a very diffuse center image. Center image is something I really focus in on, so I notice when it's not there. I started to toe in the speakers just a little bit at a time over a period of days of listening until I ended up directly on axis. They sound best to me toed out just a little bit, the center image is good and the "ambiance" is also good. They do a reasonably good disappearing act in my living room which is also something that I have been trying to achieve.

The more I listen, the more I changed my thoughts from dry and boring to detailed and realistic. The underwhelming thoughts were short lived. They became very appealing, open and detailed the more I listened. One thing that really stands out is the bass. The bass from these things is incredible and way beyond my expectations. I feel no need to run a sub (Newman will disagree) at this point in time. The one gripe I have is the lack of soundstage depth. I did notice that reduced when I removed the preamp from the system.. that could be totally due to an impedance mismatch from the edge amp to the squeezebox. The top end is smooth and detailed, not glaring and never harsh.

I suspect with some tweaking, these speakers will be around for awhile. I really like these things. They sound great, and they look alright in my living room. I will likely mess with some cables next *gasp* to see if I can get a few nuances sorted. These are all preference points at this juncture. Thiel was kind enough to mail me a set of proper spikes as well, so I eagerly await them.

That's about it. I won't wax poetic about what I listened to or use flowery verbiage to describe them. I will tell you this though; If you can listen to a pair, listen for awhile and hear them for what they are. They don't add and don't seem to subtract.. as a good speaker should. Good recordings sound ridiculously good and bad recordings just sound boring and bad. Garbage in = garbage out!

I look forward to listening to them again and again, something that hasn't been the case in a long time in this system.

Evan

Thanks for sharing your detail views on these great speakers! Enjoy them....

Nice review, thanks for taking the time to tell us about it. Any chance you could take a picture? I'd love to see them.

I'm with you on the center image thing, that's mandatory. As for cables, especially with speakers of this caliber, I personally think you're well-justified in getting something beyond basic speaker wire, even if it's supposed to still be at the same performance level as the Kimber.

Btw: Are your Kimbers really 6TC? I thought there was only 8 and 4.

IME speaker break in is very real, more with some than others. Sure, your ears certainly need to get used to the new sound, but perhaps the bass will fill out a bit more over the next 100 hours or so (I know, you said the bass is already very good).

You would be correct. I couldn't remember which it was so I meant to go back and proofread it. I think it's 4tc. I also have a set of the base model nordost flatlines that I intend on trying out.

I will definitely take pictures after my preamp arrives! Maybe tomorrow or Thursday!

I will also be pulling a dedicated line to my system sometime in the near future hopefully. I have materials but no time.

These speakers are used, so I doubt they underwent any real break-in. I know they had been run for a few days before I bought them.

one mistake people make is sitting too far from this reasonably large speaker. People assume because of the size you need to be listening far away. IMO these Thiels are near field listening speakers even though they are full size. Try positioning the tweeter centers about 8 feet apart, toed in at maybe 30 degree's, and sit centered about 7 to 8 feet in an equilateral triangle. Also included is a link to a guide for proper room positioning for good, even bass.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=377034

Thiel is one of my favorite loudspeaker manufactures and I gotta say you should continue listening with an open mind and keep experimenting. It's a funny thing but a finicky speaker like this can sound quite mediocre until you position and partner them correctly and then...

WoW they just open up and transport you to another listening dimension.

Shawn

Thanks for the link, you are definitely correct. They sound pretty meh until they are set up well.

Do you like them better than the Carver Amazing Loudspeakers?

I have a pair of the original Carver Amazings and have a chance to trade for a pair of Thiel CS 3.6.

It depends on your room, but I can tell you that the CS3.6's are worth a lot more than the amazings. In my room, the Thiels were a better speaker. The Carvers were always larger than life in my system. The bass extension on the Thiels is excellent, better than the Carvers.

They are VERY different speakers, but if you are ready to move the carvers along that trade is really in your favor.

Evan