Some Empire Turntable History

[empirelvr]

Originally Posted by Sincere

I can't say for sure? It has 5 bands wound round as a coil, but with each end coming off into posts, one shorter and angles, one longer and straight. It has a round washer in the center of the coil, and a touch of mystery black goo on the long straight post.

Sorry for my terminology ignorance there... The spring attached to the screw with the lock washer is still attached, it is the other spring that has come off.

OK, I'll just take a picture...

Thanks for your help and all of the information you've provided in this forum, empirelvr!

I've got good news and bad news for you.

The good news is that is the cueing mechanism spring, and not needed for the proper operation of the tone arm itself.

The bad news is, you accidentially toasted the cueing mechanism.

I honestly have no idea how you would fix that. The fact it came off so easily makes me wonder if it was just hanging by a thread to begin with, unless you took a nutwrench to that part of the arm purposefully.

It's a shame you didn't see this thread earlier, you would have seen the warning in multiple posts to NOT try and disassemble the arm.

Hopefuly you've put the arm back together as best as you can.

As to your original problem, I would look to the contact points between the sled and the headshell for the source of your problem.

You have a road ahead of you to be sure. But if you can live without the cueing and forgo the dyna-lift feature, you should be alright once you take care of the sled/headshell junction issue.

[Sincere]

All I did was unscrew the screw that runs through the metal discs... I presumed
that doing so detached this spring, but perhaps as you said it was already shot. Where would the spring go, were I to be able to somehow reattach it? between the plates? I was trying to figure out where the posts off the spring lodged, but I see no logical place. I'll try some deoxit on the contacts, but I'm starting to fear it's the tonearm wiring, and despite MaxSeven's encouragement, I don't want to put a modern tonearm on it, as the cost would likely exceed the value for me, not to mention the fact that I prefer my tables to be all original. I would certainly have enjoyed to use the table as it was meant to be used, with cueing and dyna-lift, but I'd settle for anything usable at this point.

Originally Posted by empirelvr

I've got good news and bad news for you.

The good news is that is the cueing mechanism spring, and not needed for the proper operation of the tone arm itself.

The bad news is, you accidentially toasted the cueing mechanism.

I honestly have no idea how you would fix that. The fact it came off so easily makes me wonder if it was just hanging by a thread to begin with, unless you took a nutwrench to that part of the arm purposefully.

It's a shame you didn't see this thread earlier, you would have seen the warning in multiple posts to NOT try and disassemble the arm.

Hopefuly you've put the arm back together as best as you can.

As to your original problem, I would look to the contact points between the sled and the headshell for the source of your problem.

You have a road ahead of you to be sure. But if you can live without the cueing and forgo the dyna-lift feature, you should be alright once you take care of the sled/headshell junction issue.

[empirelvr]

The internal arm wiring doesn't tend to go bad. The sled/shell juncture though is the bane of all the various makes and models of turntables that use a similar mounting, such as Dual, Garrard, BSR, ELAC/Miracord and others that rely on contact pressure to make contact. Don't discount this as the probable cause. It may seem alright, but as owners of all the other turntables will tell you, looks can be decieving here.

As to how to attach the cue spring, since you disassembled it, it may be possible to re-attach it, but I'm at a loss to advise as to how. Hopefully someone out there will be able to chime in with some help.

Don't give up!

Originally Posted by Sincere

All I did was unscrew the screw that runs through the metal discs... I presumed
that doing so detached this spring, but perhaps as you said it was already shot. Where would the spring go, were I to be able to somehow reattach it? between the plates? I was trying to figure out where the posts off the spring lodged, but I see no logical place. I'll try some deoxit on the contacts, but I'm starting to fear it's the tonearm wiring, and despite MaxSeven's encouragement, I don't want to put a modern tonearm on it, as the cost would likely exceed the value for me, not to mention the fact that I prefer my tables to be all original. I would certainly have enjoyed to use the table as it was meant to be used, with cueing and dyna-lift, but I'd settle for anything usable at this point.

[rockets63]

Originally Posted by Sincere

All I did was unscrew the screw that runs through the metal discs... I presumed
that doing so detached this spring, but perhaps as you said it was already shot. Where would the spring go, were I to be able to somehow reattach it? between the plates? I was trying to figure out where the posts off the spring lodged, but I see no logical place. I'll try some deoxit on the contacts, but I'm starting to fear it's the tonearm wiring, and despite MaxSeven's encouragement, I don't want to put a modern tonearm on it, as the cost would likely exceed the value for me, not to mention the fact that I prefer my tables to be all original. I would certainly have enjoyed to use the table as it was meant to be used, with cueing and dyna-lift, but I'd settle for anything usable at this point.

Dear Sincere;

Check the photos with posts # 443 and 467 on this thread. Some good shots of the cueing mechanism and the anti-skate set-up. Hope this helps.

John

[reister211]

I have searched this forum and cannot find info on record clamps. Would you recommend one and if so, what one for an Empire 698
thanks so much

[Br1ck]

I need to find a tonearm for a 208. I see where a few have made wood armboards witch would, I presume, allow for the mounting of any modern arm. What has worked for you?

[MrTube]

I used a holesaw and a jigsaw and cut a slot into the aluminum of my 208 and mounted an SME type III arm directly on it.

[truck99]

Was inspired by this thread to try and find a nice Empire. Cosmetically the one I found is very nice. Original owner with the manuals. Found a 598 with wood case, 990 arm, 2000z cartridge with an extra stylus. Seems to have the common ailments for a turntable of this age;
1. light is out, already removed and ordered
2. cueing is sloppy
3. But the one that concerns me the most is the platter spins up very slow, but does hold speed. Previous owner said he replaced the belt, but it seems loose to me, so I ordered another one. I noticed that when I tried to use my discwasher it slowed the platter down to a crawl.

But manually playing a record, some really sweet sounds come pouring out, which just gives me more incentive to take my time and fix the tt right.

[empirelvr]

Originally Posted by reister211

I have searched this forum and cannot find info on record clamps. Would you recommend one and if so, what one for an Empire 698
thanks so much

I don't recommend a clamp for the 698. Part of the design of the table is that the rubber mat only touches the record at two points. Use of a clamp would dish the disc down, causing vinyl to be in contact with the platter where there is no mat.

If you do insist on trying a clamp though, make sure it is the kind that isn't a weight. A weighted clamp will screw up the suspension tuning.

[empirelvr]

Originally Posted by truck99

Was inspired by this thread to try and find a nice Empire. Cosmetically the one I found is very nice. Original owner with the manuals. Found a 598 with wood case, 990 arm, 2000z cartridge with an extra stylus. Seems to have the common ailments for a turntable of this age;
1. light is out, already removed and ordered
2. cueing is sloppy
3. But the one that concerns me the most is the platter spins up very slow, but does hold speed. Previous owner said he replaced the belt, but it seems loose to me, so I ordered another one. I noticed that when I tried to use my discwasher it slowed the platter down to a crawl.

But manually playing a record, some really sweet sounds come pouring out, which just gives me more incentive to take my time and fix the tt right.

Nice score!!! It looks like a beauty.

Assuming you've read through this thread, you saw the tips about the cueing and you'll put them to use. That should help that.

It does sound like you have a stretched belt. Empire spec'd the table to get to full speed in a 1/3 of a revolution. (At least with a new, proper sized belt.) I hope you get the proper width belt so you don't wind up with a case of the "Fast Empire's."

[MaxSeven]

Originally Posted by reister211

I have searched this forum and cannot find info on record clamps. Would you recommend one and if so, what one for an Empire 698
thanks so much

I do recommend getting one - and I would get it from ttweights.com. You can get a center-clamping, collet style that wouldn't weigh very much. Or you could get a free-standing aluminum. I don't see any reason why you couldn't get something heavier either, and experiment with adjusting the suspension.

I would also look into a way to put an entirely new mat on the 698 to replace the crap-hole Empire rubber donut. You can get one from Herbies audio labs with a custom cut center-hole.

[truck99]

Originally Posted by empirelvr

Nice score!!! It looks like a beauty.

Assuming you've read through this thread, you saw the tips about the cueing and you'll put them to use. That should help that.

It does sound like you have a stretched belt. Empire spec'd the table to get to full speed in a 1/3 of a revolution. (At least with a new, proper sized belt.) I hope you get the proper width belt so you don't wind up with a case of the "Fast Empire's."

Thanks!! I have read through the thread and will play with the cueing soon.
The previous owner actually gave me the original belt, stretched out for sure, but the one he put on is much wider than the original. So I've ordered from the recommendation here. Measured it first with string to get the length, little over 33".

[reister211]

Thanks for the responses regarding clamps. Two different views. I have been doing some research and people say that a clamp brings out the bass and mid range. It also brightens the high end. I agree about weight being a factor with this type of platter.
I am open to any other opinions.
Thanks

[MaxSeven]

Originally Posted by reister211

I have been doing some research and people say that a clamp brings out the bass and mid range. It also brightens the high end...

To me, a record clamp or weight simply holds the record flat and minimizes the possibility of resonance. So if a record is not completely flat and true (they almost never are), the weight/clamp helps to correct a convex situation. Taking it a step further, one can put a periphery ring which holds the outer rim of the record down, thus correcting a concave situation. The latter is a pain in the ass though. Then you have a clamping system like on the VPI, where a raised center hub or washer offsets the center of the record from the platter by a few millimeters, and the clamp is designed to screw down on the spindle so that it forces or 'cups' the record down onto the platter ensuring good contact with the platter. Most of all though, the record weight/clamp looks cool, and that is all that matters

[reister211]

Thanks MaxSeven for the information and entertaining comments