AK Design Collaborative - Insignia-Class Economy Speakers (a.k.a Indignia)
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
Sir.Byrd
Lunatic Member
Okay... I just made it exactly the same as the PE cabinets.
mikellekim
New Member
The Odd Couple
(cue the theme from The Odd Couple)
How's this for less rectangular? At least for one of them. Then there's a rectangle for the other one. I've been listening with it perched on top of a box similar to the first, but that box was busy during the photo shoot.
These are just prototype/practice cabinets, actually, made from scrap I had laying around. I came up with the 7-sided shape to fit in a computer hutch, while maintaining the 0.38 cu ft volume. But never having built speakers before, I was worried that it might affect the sound. So I built a regular box-shaped one too, for comparison.
Of course you're wondering if they sound different? Well, I need to do some more rigorous listening tests, but I think there is less bass in the 7-sided one. If so, is that really because of the shape? I'm not convinced that's it, or at least not all of it.
One issue is that the mdf box doesn't hold screws as well, and I haven't glued on the baffle (because I intend to make new boxes and move everything over) so the baffle isn't super tight. I could use longer screws to see if it makes a difference (I just grabbed a box of drywall screws).
Another issue is that I did have to make some compromises in duct placement on the 7-sider. At first I thought I was in like Flynn because the deeper box allowed me to have a straight duct - if I put the tweeter on the deep end. But because I want the tweeter on the shallow end (for better separation in the hutch), the duct wound up terminating behind the woofer, which I recall from the instructions was advised against. :nono: Its opening is a couple of inches away from the woofer, a distance which I could increase in the next version - try to get it to 1.5" from the back wall.
I suppose I could try stacking 45s together in the 7-sider to see if I can get that duct to terminate in the shallow end of the box...
Also, I wasn't particularly exacting in my application of fiberglass damping. I tried not to get too thick, but basically I was salvaging leftovers of 3.5" batting and trying to separate it into 1" layers. So I could have a few thin spots and thick spots here and there.
As for listening impressions: I'm driving them with a 80's Mitsubishi MAV-3, which is 60 or 80 WPC (I am now at least...there was an 'incident' with another amp). This receiver is reasonably gutsy, though I recall that when I bought it I felt that the bass didn't sound as tight as the Adcom that I couldn't afford. Overall, they sound quite fine, and like so many others I am amazed at how much bass they produce.
I confess I was a bit put off at first by how the midrange seemed to suffer compared to my Magnat MSP-110s. My eventual conclusion is that my Magnats probably are producing too much midrange, and I'm missing what I've been used to for 20 years.
So a couple of questions for the design gurus: Would you expect that the odd shape I made affects the sound significantly? What about the placement of the duct?
(cue the theme from The Odd Couple)
How's this for less rectangular? At least for one of them. Then there's a rectangle for the other one. I've been listening with it perched on top of a box similar to the first, but that box was busy during the photo shoot.
These are just prototype/practice cabinets, actually, made from scrap I had laying around. I came up with the 7-sided shape to fit in a computer hutch, while maintaining the 0.38 cu ft volume. But never having built speakers before, I was worried that it might affect the sound. So I built a regular box-shaped one too, for comparison.
Of course you're wondering if they sound different? Well, I need to do some more rigorous listening tests, but I think there is less bass in the 7-sided one. If so, is that really because of the shape? I'm not convinced that's it, or at least not all of it.
One issue is that the mdf box doesn't hold screws as well, and I haven't glued on the baffle (because I intend to make new boxes and move everything over) so the baffle isn't super tight. I could use longer screws to see if it makes a difference (I just grabbed a box of drywall screws).
Another issue is that I did have to make some compromises in duct placement on the 7-sider. At first I thought I was in like Flynn because the deeper box allowed me to have a straight duct - if I put the tweeter on the deep end. But because I want the tweeter on the shallow end (for better separation in the hutch), the duct wound up terminating behind the woofer, which I recall from the instructions was advised against. :nono: Its opening is a couple of inches away from the woofer, a distance which I could increase in the next version - try to get it to 1.5" from the back wall.
I suppose I could try stacking 45s together in the 7-sider to see if I can get that duct to terminate in the shallow end of the box...
Also, I wasn't particularly exacting in my application of fiberglass damping. I tried not to get too thick, but basically I was salvaging leftovers of 3.5" batting and trying to separate it into 1" layers. So I could have a few thin spots and thick spots here and there.
As for listening impressions: I'm driving them with a 80's Mitsubishi MAV-3, which is 60 or 80 WPC (I am now at least...there was an 'incident' with another amp). This receiver is reasonably gutsy, though I recall that when I bought it I felt that the bass didn't sound as tight as the Adcom that I couldn't afford. Overall, they sound quite fine, and like so many others I am amazed at how much bass they produce.
I confess I was a bit put off at first by how the midrange seemed to suffer compared to my Magnat MSP-110s. My eventual conclusion is that my Magnats probably are producing too much midrange, and I'm missing what I've been used to for 20 years.
So a couple of questions for the design gurus: Would you expect that the odd shape I made affects the sound significantly? What about the placement of the duct?
Attachments
Vulture
Broad-Spectrum Hobbyist
Welcome to AK!
As long as the port stays approximately 8" long, 1.5" in diameter, the tuning will stay the same. Also, it's a good idea to keep the open end of the port at least an inch away from any obstructions, i.e. matting, cabinet walls, driver magnets and the like.
I like the shape of the cabinet, what are the dimensions?
I would love to see data on what that box does to the sound compared to the standard cabinet, if anything.
As long as the port stays approximately 8" long, 1.5" in diameter, the tuning will stay the same. Also, it's a good idea to keep the open end of the port at least an inch away from any obstructions, i.e. matting, cabinet walls, driver magnets and the like.
I like the shape of the cabinet, what are the dimensions?
I would love to see data on what that box does to the sound compared to the standard cabinet, if anything.
Vulture
Broad-Spectrum Hobbyist
How much difference in Hz would, say, one inch of added/subtracted length make on that 1.5" diameter port? The most info I've found scrounging this thread stated "approximately 8"". If the tuning changes drastically, I would like to get as close as possible to correct.
mikellekim
New Member
Thank you. So far I've spent most of my time in this thread. And a fair amount of time it was to read the whole thing.
I don't have the tools or knowledge to give you that data, but I can give you the dimensions. The attached image of a side panel gives you almost everything you need, except a few things that may or may not be clear to you:
- The material is 3/4" thick, so to match the 8" baffle the top, back, bottom, and the angled part are 6.5" in their 'left to right' dimension
- The piece shown has the top, back, bottom, and the angled part butted up underneath it, so that the side panel has its edges showing but the top, back, bottom and angled part do not show their edges. If you look at the earlier picture you can see that.
- The baffle sits on top of the resulting box so that its edges show.
If the way I present this information serves only to "baffle" you
, I can make another image with all the pieces shown, it's just more work to do it that way.If you do any analysis, let me know what you find.
Attachments
Like Dave said, the shape shouldn't matter much. The Roundignias didn't sound appreciably different than my stock Indignias other than a bit more bass from a higher volume. You could move the port up higher on the baffle so that with a 45° you could effectively follow the slanted part of the back and get the end of the port more out in the open.
His point about sealing the box is also dead on. Use some rope caulk or silly putty or bubblegum or something to get a good seal. With the bass tuning of these speakers vs. the cabinet size, there is some pretty good pressure being developed inside the box. Having an inadequate seal will make a difference.
Vulture: according to BassBox, changing the port length by 1" either way will change the F6 (a decent measure of usable bass in a ported cabinet) by about 1Hz. You'll never notice it. It's not until you start adding or subtracting about 3" that things will really get audible and it's not really a single low end measure (f3, f6) that will show the difference, it's the shape of the curve on the low end. If you start moving the tuning up by shortening the port then you increase the bass hump a bit so you'll have more "thump" between 50 and 100Hz but the rolloff will get steeper just below that. Move the tuning down and the opposite happens. Our particular design is kind of a sweet spot that is pretty forgiving of tuning changes (aka errors
).
His point about sealing the box is also dead on. Use some rope caulk or silly putty or bubblegum or something to get a good seal. With the bass tuning of these speakers vs. the cabinet size, there is some pretty good pressure being developed inside the box. Having an inadequate seal will make a difference.
Vulture: according to BassBox, changing the port length by 1" either way will change the F6 (a decent measure of usable bass in a ported cabinet) by about 1Hz. You'll never notice it. It's not until you start adding or subtracting about 3" that things will really get audible and it's not really a single low end measure (f3, f6) that will show the difference, it's the shape of the curve on the low end. If you start moving the tuning up by shortening the port then you increase the bass hump a bit so you'll have more "thump" between 50 and 100Hz but the rolloff will get steeper just below that. Move the tuning down and the opposite happens. Our particular design is kind of a sweet spot that is pretty forgiving of tuning changes (aka errors
).
Spirovious
New Member
Hi friends,
Is there any link that I can read the review of these speakers?
Regards.
Is there any link that I can read the review of these speakers?
Regards.
TerryO
Super Member
Hey! That might work, if he understood how to work with computers. He'd certainly need to be uncommonly intelligent!
Let's see....a speaker Mod with computer experience, Hmmmm.........
Can anyone help with this?
:scratch2:
HatchetJack
Chillin' The Most
Hey guys, about a year ago I needed a pair of bookshelfs and ordered this
kit from PE. A week later I find a nice pair of TE 70's for cheap and the parts
for this project are still in the box. Really do not need bookshelfs at the moment
but I would like to build some nice mains for my living room (19'x21')
I suspect bass would be lacking in that size room possibly powered by a Dynakit
ST 70. I have in mind building some 4-5' towers 11" wide using this kit in the
top and having a bass reflex port or maybe even a folding horn with the bass port
dumping about a foot above the floor.
Is this idea a possibility or would the dynamics of the original design matched
with the larger box cause issues with the crossover and become too boomy? :scratch2:
I really want something simple I can build and I do not want subs to complicate
and clutter.
Thanks
kit from PE. A week later I find a nice pair of TE 70's for cheap and the parts
for this project are still in the box. Really do not need bookshelfs at the moment
but I would like to build some nice mains for my living room (19'x21')
I suspect bass would be lacking in that size room possibly powered by a Dynakit
ST 70. I have in mind building some 4-5' towers 11" wide using this kit in the
top and having a bass reflex port or maybe even a folding horn with the bass port
dumping about a foot above the floor.
Is this idea a possibility or would the dynamics of the original design matched
with the larger box cause issues with the crossover and become too boomy? :scratch2:
I really want something simple I can build and I do not want subs to complicate
and clutter.
Thanks
dnewma04
The Healer
The crossover won't have anything to do with the bass response. I'm not sure that you are going to gain much bass response by changing the original cabinet. They can get slightly better with a .5 cu ft enclosure, anything above that and your getting into cabinets that will be getting too large for the drivers.
You could build a powered sub into the cabinet to reduce complication and clutter of subwoofers?
You could build a powered sub into the cabinet to reduce complication and clutter of subwoofers?
michiganpat
Super Member
I'd build it as a tower, but instead of ported, just make them a small sealed sub-enclosure in the larger box, with a sub amp and side firing woofer, using the sub amp's active crossover to cross between the side firing woofer and the 7"er, much like the polk LSi9's, or AR315HO's
Here is a build I did as a surprise for a buddy of mine.
He is a major music lover, however he is far too cheap to buy anything decent sounding, and does not have the skills, resources or motivation to build his own speakers.
Originally it was my intention to use rubber corners and cover the boxes with truck bed liner, however after building the cabs and sealing the MDF, I decided they looked too cool to cover up. My friend very much liked the raw look of them. They also have metal grills not pictured.
My buddy is somewhat accident prone and has a tendency to break everything he touches, so I decided to make them as easy to use as possible. He also refuses to learn anything regarding hooking up electronics. I'm not sure why, but if it is not HDMI, he refuses to touch it. I knew that if I built a separate amp with 2 speakers they would end up sitting around unused.
With the built in hifimediy T1, all he has to do is plug the power cord into the wall, then connect one speaker wire from one enclosure to the other. Ready to rock.
They were such a hit, I am building another pair, but this one will have a higher WAF.
He is a major music lover, however he is far too cheap to buy anything decent sounding, and does not have the skills, resources or motivation to build his own speakers.
Originally it was my intention to use rubber corners and cover the boxes with truck bed liner, however after building the cabs and sealing the MDF, I decided they looked too cool to cover up. My friend very much liked the raw look of them. They also have metal grills not pictured.
My buddy is somewhat accident prone and has a tendency to break everything he touches, so I decided to make them as easy to use as possible. He also refuses to learn anything regarding hooking up electronics. I'm not sure why, but if it is not HDMI, he refuses to touch it. I knew that if I built a separate amp with 2 speakers they would end up sitting around unused.
With the built in hifimediy T1, all he has to do is plug the power cord into the wall, then connect one speaker wire from one enclosure to the other. Ready to rock.
They were such a hit, I am building another pair, but this one will have a higher WAF.
