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TD125 Recap Help

dodog

dodog

Addicted Member
I have a Thorens TD125 (MKI), with crusty old caps. It powers and spins but it won't hold speed well. A recap is in order (yes, contacts need to be cleaned as well). However, I need a little bit of help on the cap selection. Here is the board layout for the MKI (borrowed from vinylengine):

eyti.jpg


However, this is what I have:

l61m.jpg



For comparison, this is what JonL had for his MKI and it looks quite different (pic taken from JonL's post at: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=263801&highlight=thorens+td125+cap , cropped and flipped for better orientation):

09o8.jpg




As you can see, past C9 on the board, things are pretty different. I have jumpers where he has resistors, spaces where he has caps, etc. I'm pretty sure everything is stock on this table and board, I think I might just have a really early version of the table. I wouldn't be shocked if they altered the layout through the years. I know that the first 6 caps are electrolytic, axial leads, but what should I replace them with? For example, if I use Nichicon, which series should I use?


Do the trimpots need to be cleaned with Deoxit? I know that they're used to set the voltages, per the service manual, but unsure what they are exactly. Are they just a variable resistor? Do they have contacts that need cleaning?
 
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For these caps, I'm unsure what they are:

09oz.jpg

eh9q.jpg



What are those yellow caps, should the be replaced and, if so, with what?

Even more confusing (to me), what is the silver cap? It looks like a roll of cellophane paper and has no markings on it. Given the difference between the schematic and what I have, I'm unsure if it's supposed to be 0.075 uF or 0.1 uF. If I hook a meter to it, while it's still on the board, it reads at 226.3 nF.

From what I can glean from the layout and what I have, this is what I came up with:

cap#, Value, voltage, cap dims (L, W)
C2 2500uF 35/40V (5 cm, 2.5cm)
C3 2500uF 35/40V (5 cm, 2.5cm)
C4 250uF 70V (3cm, 2cm)
C5 100uF 63V (2.5cm, 1cm)
C6 25uF 70V (2cm, 0.5cm)
C6 50uF 70V (2cm, 0.75cm)
C9 0.1uF 160V (1.5cm, 0.5cm)
C10 0.075uF 160V (1.5cm, 0.5cm)
C13? unknown, no markings. Measures 226.3 nF on the board (2cm, 0.5cm)
C11 0.1uF 160V (1.5cm, 0.5cm)

I think I have C13 but not C12
The leftmost C11 slot looks to be empty
 
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Finally, for the transformer/microswitch board I have this cap:

or6u.jpg

riry.jpg



The info for this cap:

cap#, Value, voltage, cap dims (L, W)
c1 0.1uF 1000V (4.5cm, 1cm)

Is this an electrolytic as well? What should I replace this with?


Looking at that pic now, the resistor looks like the casing has chipped off in an area. On the corresponding PCB layout (not pictured), it's just listed as "100". Is that 100 Ohm? I suppose I could take it out and measure to be sure. I assume a carbon resistor would work? I'm still a bit unsure how to read resistors but I take this to be:

brown, black, brown (mulitplier), gold (tolerance)
10 X 10 = 100, 5% tolerance?

is there a temp. rating I should shoot for?
 
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Those small capacitance caps are not 'lytics. The pink one might be film. Replacement is not required.

2, 3, 4, 5, and 6, 6 get replaced and if you go axial that is a Nichicon TVX cap.

The yellow ones should be fine, too, not 'lytics.

From my readings, the silver ones might be early tants.

The VRs, 15, 16 and 17 are 500Ω and the other three are 25kΩ. The single one is 100kΩ. But you can measure these and clean them. Might be fine after cleaning.
 
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Did a quick search on both Mouser and Digikey. Damn, caps are expensive. The good news is that most of the caps are near the same size, the bad news is that I can't really choose the cap manufacturer, rather I have to go with what is actually available). Just looking at axial lead, electrolytics (L, W):

Mouser ($58.23)
-----------------

2500 uF ($15.50)
-------------
(Vishay/Sprague) (50V) (6.675 cm, 2.8575 cm)
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay/TVA13183/?qs=oYilhPf8E58VR5AVT3Qz8g==

250 uF ($18.30)
-------------
(Vishay/Sprague) (75V) (2.89814 cm, 2.5654 cm)
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22dSqOXRo4cOgH/qmrP3YhDY=

100 uF ($0.84)
-------------
(Nichicon VX) (63V) (2 cm, 0.8 cm)
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22SmzhV1iNnMt6Ygkf1jIRoE=

50 uF ($3.77)
-------------
(Vishay/Sprague) (100V) (3.175 cm, 0.9525 cm)
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay/TVA1343/?qs=FlacDpl4iRF1b3H3fg7xtA==

25 uF ($4.32)
-------------
(Vishay/Sprague) (100V) (3.90144 cm, 0.9779 cm)
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22beeiJoI0EpCMCapFyl7p7Q=



Digikey ($80.96-$91.03)
-----------------

2500 uF ($25.78)
-------------
(Cornell Dubillier) (50V) (6.668 cm, 2.54 cm)
http://www.digikey.com/product-sear...t=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

250 uF ($26.18 (75V), $16.11 (100V))
-------------
(Cornell Dubillier) (75V) (1.905 cm, 4.128 cm)
http://www.digikey.com/product-sear...t=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

(Cornell Dubillier) (100V) (2.222 cm, 4.763 cm)
http://www.digikey.com/product-sear...t=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

100 uF ($1.87)
-------------
(Vishay BC) (63V) (1.8 cm, 0.8 cm)
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MAL202138101E3/4074PHCT-ND/263277

50 uF ($6.74)
-------------
(Cornell Dubillier) (150V) (3.988 cm, 1.194 cm)
http://www.digikey.com/product-sear...t=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

25 uF ($4.68)
-------------
(Cornell Dubillier) (100V) (2.692 cm, 1.016 cm)
http://www.digikey.com/product-sear...t=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25



Unless someone has a cheaper alternative (or can point out what I did wrong), I guess that Mouser is the choice here.
 
Post a schematic. Someone might be able to tell you if you can up the capacitance of the 2500s to 3300 and use an 8 buck Nichicon. I corrected the axial type for the Nichicons in the above post.
 
The schematic can be seen on the service manual at VinylEngine but I chopped out the portion from the PDF (it looks that blurry in the PDF):

iblw.jpg
 
Bump

Can anyone tell me if I could substitute 3300 uF caps for the two large 2500 uF cap? ApexJr. has insanely low prices on the 3300 uF caps, which would mean a difference ~$30 for my cap order. I won't substitute to be cheap if it means I could possibly harm the unit, FWIW. I'd rather do it right, only once, but I'd also enjoy being economical.
 
For more info, contact this person...

David Archambault
USA based gentleman that manufactures and sells upgrades and parts for Audio Research turntables under the Vinyl Nirvana brandname, in addition he provides repairs and upgrades to AR and Vintage Thorens turntables.
Homepage: http://www.vinylnirvana.com
David Archambault, 4 Gary Lane, Exeter, NH 03833, USA.
Tel: +1 603 772 6063. E-Mail: ddarch88 /at% yahoo.com.
 
moinau said:
For more info, contact this person...

David Archambault
USA based gentleman that manufactures and sells upgrades and parts for Audio Research turntables under the Vinyl Nirvana brandname, in addition he provides repairs and upgrades to AR and Vintage Thorens turntables.
Homepage: http://www.vinylnirvana.com
David Archambault, 4 Gary Lane, Exeter, NH 03833, USA.
Tel: +1 603 772 6063. E-Mail: ddarch88 /at% yahoo.com.
Click to expand...

Email sent and now I'll wait to hear back. Thank you for the contact info.

If anyone else wants to jump in, I'm always happy to get multiple opinions.
 
Thanks Brad, I knew we could get the AK minds to help out dodog with some less expensive caps.
 
Thank BK. I heard back from David Archambault and he said the same thing. Great minds think alike. :) That will save me about a third on the total cost, which is nice.
 
OK, I have some follow-up questions:

1a) I'm used to polypropylene caps being much bigger than the electrolytics I've replaced. Have electrolytics shrunk in size through the years?

My 3300 uF caps came today and they're nearly a quarter of the size of the 2200 uF caps that were on the PCB. Is that normal?

1b) For the electrolytic caps I have used, I'm used to radial caps where the neg. side is marked with a stripe. For axial caps, and this is embarrassing to ask, is the neg. lead the one that the stripe is pointing to?

2) I'm still looking for a replacement resistor for the red one (cracked) in the second pic in post number three. Based on the color bands (and checking the schematic), it should be a 100 Ohm resistor, 5% tolerance. However, what should I use for the wattage? It looks too small to be a 1/4W, but should I use a 1/2W or 1W replacement. Also, I'm making the assumption that a carbon comp resistor is fine since this isn't in a signal path.


Thanks for bearing with me. I'm learning slowly.
 
1a) Yes 'lytics can be much smaller.

1B) The spec sheet shows how to tell. If you ordered the UTX Nichicons, the arrow points to negative and the depressed ring is on the positive end. Got to the site where you ordered them and grab the spec sheet for those caps to verify.
 
Blue Shadow said:
1a) Yes 'lytics can be much smaller.

1B) The spec sheet shows how to tell. If you ordered the UTX Nichicons, the arrow points to negative and the depressed ring is on the positive end. Got to the site where you ordered them and grab the spec sheet for those caps to verify.
Click to expand...

I always wondered why one side of the cap was "pushed in." All those little things like one leg of an LED being shorted, the depressed ring on the cap, the stripe on the diode. It's like archaeology.

I ordered the caps from Apex Jr. No spec sheet. I guess I could have googled for the brand, spec though. :scratch2:


Thoughts on the resistor?
 
That is a 100 ohm resistor. Replace with a metal film one. 0.5W or more should be fine. It's probably okay anyway, unless it sees high voltage (sorry I haven't got my head around the schematic). Order a 0.5 and a 2W 100R resistor and see which fits best.
 
dodog said:
Did a quick search on both Mouser and Digikey. Damn, caps are expensive. The good news is that most of the caps are near the same size, the bad news is that I can't really choose the cap manufacturer, rather I have to go with what is actually available). Just looking at axial lead, electrolytics (L, W):

Mouser ($58.23)
-----------------

2500 uF ($15.50)
-------------
(Vishay/Sprague) (50V) (6.675 cm, 2.8575 cm)
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay/TVA13183/?qs=oYilhPf8E58VR5AVT3Qz8g==

250 uF ($18.30)
-------------
(Vishay/Sprague) (75V) (2.89814 cm, 2.5654 cm)
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22dSqOXRo4cOgH/qmrP3YhDY=

100 uF ($0.84)
-------------
(Nichicon VX) (63V) (2 cm, 0.8 cm)
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22SmzhV1iNnMt6Ygkf1jIRoE=

50 uF ($3.77)
-------------
(Vishay/Sprague) (100V) (3.175 cm, 0.9525 cm)
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay/TVA1343/?qs=FlacDpl4iRF1b3H3fg7xtA==

25 uF ($4.32)
-------------
(Vishay/Sprague) (100V) (3.90144 cm, 0.9779 cm)
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22beeiJoI0EpCMCapFyl7p7Q=



Digikey ($80.96-$91.03)
-----------------

2500 uF ($25.78)
-------------
(Cornell Dubillier) (50V) (6.668 cm, 2.54 cm)
http://www.digikey.com/product-sear...t=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

250 uF ($26.18 (75V), $16.11 (100V))
-------------
(Cornell Dubillier) (75V) (1.905 cm, 4.128 cm)
http://www.digikey.com/product-sear...t=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

(Cornell Dubillier) (100V) (2.222 cm, 4.763 cm)
http://www.digikey.com/product-sear...t=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

100 uF ($1.87)
-------------
(Vishay BC) (63V) (1.8 cm, 0.8 cm)
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MAL202138101E3/4074PHCT-ND/263277

50 uF ($6.74)
-------------
(Cornell Dubillier) (150V) (3.988 cm, 1.194 cm)
http://www.digikey.com/product-sear...t=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

25 uF ($4.68)
-------------
(Cornell Dubillier) (100V) (2.692 cm, 1.016 cm)
http://www.digikey.com/product-sear...t=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25



Unless someone has a cheaper alternative (or can point out what I did wrong), I guess that Mouser is the choice here.
Click to expand...

Hi Dodog Im wondering if you ever finished this project? I'm about to work on my TD-125. It's running good but the strobe has a delay at start up & I've read a recap may help. plus these caps are long in the tooth. I have a few questions regarding the recap.
Did you only replace the electrolytics? Did you change out those non-polar yellow caps? how about resistors? Where those replaced?
Any tips on working on the board? Was it easy to remove the old solder?
Finally, did the recap get your table up and running? Thanks!
-Jeff
 
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