Wharfedale W90 Questions

PastTechFan said:

Hi JT,

Sadly, I have not (yet). But I may get into the cabs again in the next few weeks. The speakers sound great!, but the 16 ohm open cone woofer has always nagged at me a little. I'd like them factory spec.

I've got a line on a pair of 8 ohm 12" drivers (alnico) for a good price. And I think I'm going to try and put the styrofoam plug from my dead woofer into one of them. That will mean cutting the dead one up, but the VC is shot anyway, or there's junk in the gap (can't get into it cuz of the styro). I'll check into both then, and let you know.

I do recall on my W60's finding chalk dates that looked like Sept '63. (Those are ceramic mags.) But that doesn't help with dating the 90s.

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It's hard to get an exact manufacturing date for vintage Wharfedale models. without knowing the original date of purchase, the best you can do is go by the drivers and approximate. From what I've been able to tell, the W90 was introduced at some point in 1962. I have a 2-page magazine-ad from that year which looks to be the first big ad for that model. Looks just like mine. I always assumed that the W**C series started in '66, but since discovering what I had about the W90's, I'm thinking that they could have started that series as early as '65. Really-don't know. Based on the info I've come up with, the W90D was apparently introduced in 1968, but who knows anymore? The only thing I'm certain about is that it was sold until 1970 (also the final year of the W**D series as a whole... It was replaced in '71 by the W**E series).

Listening to my early W60's at the moment (2-way/alnico drivers). My brother took the family down to Georgia, so I'm taking care of his dogs and that sort of thing (His two boys, 6 and 7, are entered in some huge event down there that's supposed to be like the Daytona 500 of midget-racing). Since the W90's are way-too-big to go transporting, I thought I would bring the W60's instead, since they're from the same era. Brought my Sansui 2000x as well. Jim Croce's playing right now (the DCC "24 Karat Gold In A Bottle" CD). They're great speakers for acoustic music. VERY-open-sounding. I have the cabs placed on their sides (with the tweeters on the left and the woofers on the right), and they're on top of some tall kitchen chairs (barstool-height). Putting the woofer and tweeter on the same plane seems to tie them together nicely (make them play nice with each other), and it gives the bass more focus (Gives the overall sound more focus, actually). I've only been able to listen to my W90's for 2-3 days this entire month. Been missing them big-time.

These W60's are sounding great though, so I'm gonna' try and record some videos this week, since I can really-open them up here. Should sound a lot better than the others I did.

*EDIT* - I've seen a bunch of different W90 configurations posted on here. Alnico drivers all around, alnico tweeters and mids, but with ceramic woofers, or even ceramic drivers all around. I know there's a guy who usually has those woofers with the styrofoam dampener on top of the cone (He's on fleabay, either in the UK or possibly Canada... Can't remember for sure, but he always seems to have the early, alnico-magnet version of that styrofoam woofer). You're gonna' be so-happy with those speakers over the long haul. They're keepers. When you get them placed just right, suddenly the soundstage locks in, and it turns into a wall of sound. The W60's do it too. Just a matter of getting the distances down to the quarter-inch. That's where the 'wow factor' seems to reside. I bump one of them on the way to the bathroom, and the magic starts to go away, but get it back to the right spot, and everything's perfect again. I check mine every so often to keep from losing that sound.

Styro Woofs

Gang-Twanger said:

I know there's a guy who usually has those woofers with the styrofoam dampener on top of the cone (He's on fleabay, either in the UK or possibly Canada... Can't remember for sure, but he always seems to have the early, alnico-magnet version of that styrofoam woofer).

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Hi GT,

Glad you're enjoying your 60s! They're not exactly earbuds, as far as portability goes.

I saw a Briggs book on that auction site, and copied one of the pics, cuz it referred to the "polystyrene" diaphragm speakers. Interesting side view, showing the thickness of the plug.

I'm pretty hopeful I can simply take the foam from my dead one and insert it into an open coned 12". I don't see any difference between the driver units except for the foam. We shall see.

PastTechFan said:

Hi GT,

Glad you're enjoying your 60s! They're not exactly earbuds, as far as portability goes.

I saw a Briggs book on that auction site, and copied one of the pics, cuz it referred to the "polystyrene" diaphragm speakers. Interesting side view, showing the thickness of the plug.

I'm pretty hopeful I can simply take the foam from my dead one and insert it into an open coned 12". I don't see any difference between the driver units except for the foam. We shall see.

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Yeah, I've been looking for info myself about those PST woofers (I have to think that PST stands for polystyrene). One thing's for sure, Wharfedale knew a hell of a lot about dampening resonances. The sand-filled panel technique works as well as anything I've ever seen. It totally-eliminates the rear bass-pocket that speakers get (I remember reading about a recording studio that built a sand-filled isolation wall).

I know even the W60's are big to be dragging around, but I was away from my W90's for weeks, and when I got back, I only had one day with them before having to house-sit for my brother, so I had to at least bring something (I keep reminding myself it was well-worth the effort... My Grado headphones are nice, and they have great bass-response that gets nice and low, but I prefer the smoother highs of my W90's).

Coltrane's "A Love Supreme" is playing at the moment (vinyl-rip of the original Impulse stereo LP). I like any speaker that gets me digging deeper into my music collection (I've had that one for years... Just haven't listened to it in quite a while).

I noticed that the early W** series is very-reminiscent of early '60's British guitar-amps. The early W90 sound is like Vox, early Marshall, and Hiwatt, all rolled into one. Just think of the guitar sounds of John Lennon and George Harrison, Bluesbreakers-era Clapton and London-era Hendrix, and Pete Townshend on "Tommy" and "Who's Next", and you basically have the tonality of the W90's, especially on the leading and trailing edges.

Progress.....

Well, I'm now the proud owner of a couple more 12" (8 ohm) woofers, and a couple of re-foamed Super 3s(!), and........ a couple of Magnavox (aluminum) horn tweeters. Don't know just what I'll do with those last just yet, but they worked out in the deal. Very nice deal. (Thanks John!)

Soooooo... next week off, and away to see family. Anyway, on my return, (when there's enough lightning) my dead PST foam-filled woofer will go under the knife, and the poly "diaphragm" will be transplanted into an open coned (8 ohm) woofer. I promise pics for posterity.

Anybody got any ideas for adhesive?

I didn't need the Super 3's just now, but they were "professionally re-foamed in Florida in 2009", and I believe it. Beautiful job. They're like tiny golden artifacts, with "immense great" alnico magnets! As the British say in their "big project" TV shows....."massive!".

Just keeping the tweets in reserve for now. This way, I figure, I'll likely die before my W90s do! I tell myself, I'm preserving these wonderful devices for future generations.

Yeah, I've got this bad........ (Born a fan of tech from the past.)

A view of the Styro "Bung"

Well, high time I posted a few pics. I did the styro transplant over a year ago.

As those reading the thread might recall, one of the "styro" woofers in one of my cabinets was DOA. I was able to get a replacement with open cone. So I tore into the dead driver with an exacto knife, and cut out the styrofoam diaphragm (bung). It's nothing very magical, just a circular piece of maybe
1 1/4" styro sheet, tapered at the edge to conform with the cone.



Trim off the old cone fibers, and glue into the open cone recipient. There may have been some other difference between the 2 drivers, but I couldn't see any.

I know this thread is very old but can't help wondering if you found any dates on the cones or coded sides of the pots in your W-90s? Did you have any success with converting the styrofoam plugs into the other 12" speakers or clearing the voice coil in your original 12" styrofoam plug speaker? I see guys listing that speaker a lot on Ebay, and know it is replaceable. My W-90s look like yours but don't have any particle board anywhere in the cabinets and my crossovers look like your but aren't in the center of the top panel, but are to the far left side of that panel. Mine are also slot vented on the left rear side lower panel with black wool covering the inside of the panel and the right side is solid and sand filled with ports to the grill cloth. My grill cloth has a vertical ripple styled grill cloth with a speckeled type pattern. Speakers are marked 10/64 on both 12" cones in both cabinets and are ceramic magnets. The original English wire jacks are Motorola style but I removed them to install Banana plug gold jacks to except my Monster cable with Banana gold plated plugs. They mounted into the fiberglass plate where the Motorola jacks were and didn't require any alterations other than the soldered wire connections inside. Mine are 32 1/2" x 27 3/4" x 13" which it seems varies from year to year slightly? I also want to convert by installing oil capacitors to replace the original A H Hunts electrlytic caps that are still installed.

jimtone said:

I know this thread is very old but can't help wondering if you found any dates on the cones or coded sides of the pots in your W-90s? Did you have any success with converting the styrofoam plugs into the other 12" speakers or clearing the voice coil in your original 12" styrofoam plug speaker? I see guys listing that speaker a lot on Ebay, and know it is replaceable. My W-90s look like yours but don't have any particle board anywhere in the cabinets and my crossovers look like your but aren't in the center of the top panel, but are to the far left side of that panel. Mine are also slot vented on the left rear side lower panel with black wool covering the inside of the panel and the right side is solid and sand filled with ports to the grill cloth. My grill cloth has a vertical ripple styled grill cloth with a speckeled type pattern. Speakers are marked 10/64 on both 12" cones in both cabinets and are ceramic magnets. The original English wire jacks are Motorola style but I removed them to install Banana plug gold jacks to except my Monster cable with Banana gold plated plugs. They mounted into the fiberglass plate where the Motorola jacks were and didn't require any alterations other than the soldered wire connections inside. Mine are 32 1/2" x 27 3/4" x 13" which it seems varies from year to year slightly? I also want to convert by installing oil capacitors to replace the original A H Hunts electrlytic caps that are still installed.

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Hi Jimtone,

Hope you're enjoying your '90s.

Re your questions, see my post 25 above. I don't have any dates for my pots (Lpads?), but there's a pic of the original polystyrene driver being cut up. The chalk (crayon?) reads "23-9-3", which I assume is September 23, 1963. I think my speakers were Canadian assembly which, if I'm right, seems to mean older (British?) badges, and less glitzy fabric then the US versions. Maybe older drivers too!

As for recapping, I strongly recommend it. Those old Hunts are pretty tired by now. GangTwanger swears by his old PBC-infused paper in oil caps. I've been REALLY happy with my GE "motor run" caps. See this thread:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/pio-capacitors-which-one-is-best.223735/page-2 especially post 33

That's not my crossover, but my W90s now have similar caps. Yes they're big ('uge!!), but there's plenty of real estate in the W90s. Lovely sound!!

PastTechFan said:

Hi Jimtone,

Hope you're enjoying your '90s.

Re your questions, see my post 25 above. I don't have any dates for my pots (Lpads?), but there's a pic of the original polystyrene driver being cut up. The chalk (crayon?) reads "23-9-3", which I assume is September 23, 1963. I think my speakers were Canadian assembly which, if I'm right, seems to mean older (British?) badges, and less glitzy fabric then the US versions. Maybe older drivers too!

As for recapping, I strongly recommend it. Those old Hunts are pretty tired by now. GangTwanger swears by his old PBC-infused paper in oil caps. I've been REALLY happy with my GE "motor run" caps. See this thread:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/pio-capacitors-which-one-is-best.223735/page-2 especially post 33

That's not my crossover, but my W90s now have similar caps. Yes they're big ('uge!!), but there's plenty of real estate in the W90s. Lovely sound!!

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Your woofer date is the same as the date on my left woofer (Haven't checked the date on the right woofer) and the date in the crossover compartment... 9/'63... Tyler's W90's have that same month/year as well. Weird, huh? Mine are all-alnico and Tyler's have ceramic woofers but with alnico mids and tweeters up top. There's something about the look of those gold-painted Super 3's in that upper panel. I love it.

The oil caps I used were PCB-era Sangamo 600VDC's for the tweeters and Sprague 1000VDC "Clorinol" caps for the mids. Probably mid to late '60's. REAL nice caps, as are the Sangamos, which are from the mid '50's. The Sangamos are noticeably-bigger than a pack of cigarettes, and the Spragues are bigger than a frigging lantern battery.

Sweet job on that woofer. Notice any difference? I never understood why mine have that styro-woofer when they don't have the rear vent (Each of mine has dual sand-filled rear panels).

Gang-Twanger said:

Sweet job on that woofer. Notice any difference? I never understood why mine have that styro-woofer when they don't have the rear vent (Each of mine has dual sand-filled rear panels).

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Thanks re the woofer transplant. Truth be told, it was hard to tell a difference because my stopgap woofer turned out to be a Super 12 (with a "too tight" felt surround). I think it limited the excursion. I replaced it with a regular 12, and then glued in the styro bung. Sounds very nice now.

AS for the styro-woofer, mine is in the same cab setup as yours, sand filled back, no vent. It's my other cab back that's a little strange, vent slots cut in as if by a saw, and the forward port is blocked on that side.

Yup. That one cab with the vent is I think how Tyler's are. As far as the Super 12, the bass response is the same as that of the W12/PST (basically what's in the right sub-enclosure of each of my W90s, the woofer with the stryofoam gnub, although the W12/PST actually dates back to 1959, when the W2, W3, and W4 debuted). I've seen that in writing, either in one of the catalogs or in a book. Their best 12" bass performance. My are the dual 3-ways WITHOUT the divided bass range. I know the woofer with the big polystyrene diaphragm handles the LOWER-BASS in the W90D, so I assume that's the case for the earlier W90 types (Maybe someone can clarify that). It would make sense, as that regular alnico W12 has sweet lower-mids. If you cut the volume all the way down on the mids and tweeters, so that only the 12" woofers are playing, the W90's will STILL sound great.

I play my fair share of electronic music, mostly trance, house, and electro, with a little dub thrown in for good measure, and the W90's do quite-nicely with that. Not as good with the full-on buzzsaw-type dubstep and that kind of thing, but most of the electronic stuff I listen to sounds awesome. Some sounds totally-off the hook. Fatboy Slim and FS-related stuff is like that. The Wharfedale engineers chose that woofer combination for a reason, but whatever the case, they can pump out some first-class bass. Only problem that they're addictive. You find yourself wanting to crank them up.