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I wanna e-wave too! Got some questions...

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Based on WinISD, internal cabinet size of 354.1 cu in tuned to 24.36 Hz (1.25 in dia and 25.75 in long if you can build such a thing) will get you down to 23 Hz at F3 (-3 dB point).

For a sealed enclosure, 168 cu in will give you an over all Qtc of .71 (very good compromise response) and an F3 point of 43 Hz. On the other hand, 368 cu in will give you an F3 point of 45 Hz and an over all Qtc of .57. This will start the bass roll off a little sooner (read high frequency) and be a more gentle fall in response. There is some thought that this would also have a slightly faster transient response but I cannot speak to that from personal experience.

You can get the WinISD program for free of the net.

Good Luck

P.S. - This is based upon the 12" Dayton DC300-8 8 ohm woofer

Shelly_D
 
In my experience I prefer sealed boxes, but I was definitely going ported here. I got about the same F3 with less port and more box, but was using basta for the first time and having a little trouble. I will have to try some more later.
 
Pay attention to the excursion

I have the DC300s Ewave in Mach 1 cabs (~2.5 ft3). The driver doesn't have a lot of Xmax so you can overdrive with less than 10 watts.

A big box with a small vent will give too high velocity through the vent (chuffing).

Also, no matter what the model says, this driver is not a subwoofer. You will be much better off of you keep the F3 no lower than 35Hz. That will cover virtually all music well enough.

The DC300 also has some frequency issues just beyond the crossover point (1600Hz. If you deviate too far from the new "standard" the XO may not adequately deal with this issue.
 
Thanks, just the sort of input I'm looking for. An F3 at 35 would probably be fine with me, but your comment about hitting the xmax so easily makes me think that I might just not be satisfied with this woofer. I'm not running a SET amp here (quiet the opposite, actually) Rrrrgh.
 
So... I guess my question is now:
Does anyone have a woofer suggestion for around $110/ea or less that would be good for maximizing LF extension in the non-deluxe e-wave design, with custom cab as needed?
 
dumptruck said:
So... I guess my question is now:
Does anyone have a woofer suggestion for around $110/ea or less that would be good for maximizing LF extension in the non-deluxe e-wave design, with custom cab as needed?
Click to expand...

Have not gone through the ewave design so I do not know if this would meet all the requirements buuuuut:

This

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/sho...66&FTR=RS225S-8&CFID=2307696&CFTOKEN=39255992

in a 2.2 cu Ft vented enclosure, tuned to 29 Hz has a cost of $55 each and an F3 of 29 Hz. Two 1.5" vents 3.95" long will do it and the Mach number is 0.08, low enough so that you probably won't get chuffing.


This might fit your needs if you can use cabinets that big.

I really do recommend getting WinISD and building yourself a driver data base. It takes some time to input the drivers but once done it becomes VERY easy to compare designs and options on box size and different drivers.

Good Luck

Shelly_D
 
Thanks, I've heard good things about that woofer and it seems like it would work, but I get nervous once the woofer gets below 12". Lots of great smaller woofers these days, but they never seem to do the job in the living room. L810s are doing alright now with dual 8"s, but not great. I wonder how the ST305-8 does in its upper range?

I have downloaded a bunch of programs (including WinISD) and I'm just getting started with them, but I'm doing it!
 
I used a Dayton 8" to upgrade my son's smaller speakers. These:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-310

They really can fill a large space. He took them to his school one day with his amp and Ipod for music source and had to be admonished for disturbing just about the entire school. Admittedly it was a small school, only one class for each grade but the class rooms are still big enough for 30 to 35 students per grade.

Placed in a cabinet of 0.5 cu feet they rock and can get down to the upper 30's say an F3 of about 35 to 38 Hz or so. They can also handle high acoustic output (he likes LOUD).

Until I did his upgrade I too was skeptical of smaller speakers. Now I can believe some of the smaller ones really can respond low.

Good Luck to you

Shelly_D
 
Try this one.

Look at a Dayton PA310 from Parts Express.. It's the 12 Pro Driver.
Here are some model results of the PA310 driver in a 1.7 ft3 box. Tuned to 32 hZ. F3 at 39Hz, F6 32Hz. 106dB at 40W.

I can also get F3 32 Hz in a 4.5 ft3 box, but that model needs some work.

The frequency response curve for the PA310 is very smooth compared to the DC300. I will probably replace my existing DC300 Ewave drivers with the PA310.

If you are willing to go to $110 per driver, there are some possibilities I have not examined. I was trying to stay under $90 /driver.

The 8" RS225S isn't a very good EWave choice because it has some crazy breakup modes in the vicinity of the crossover. An 8" driver that models very well is the Peerless 830869. Don't be afraid of the size. This guy will get to F3 33.5Hz in a 1.7 ft3 box and put out 102 dB at 20 watts. Right at the xmax limit. Can probably take more watts and survive.
 

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fastbike said:
Look at a Dayton PA310 from Parts Express.. It's the 12 Pro Driver.
Here are some model results of the PA310 driver in a 1.7 ft3 box. Tuned to 32 hZ. F3 at 39Hz, F6 32Hz. 106dB at 40W.

I can also get F3 32 Hz in a 4.5 ft3 box, but that model needs some work.

The frequency response curve for the PA310 is very smooth compared to the DC300. I will probably replace my existing DC300 Ewave drivers with the PA310.

If you are willing to go to $110 per driver, there are some possibilities I have not examined. I was trying to stay under $90 /driver.

The 8" RS225S isn't a very good EWave choice because it has some crazy breakup modes in the vicinity of the crossover. An 8" driver that models very well is the Peerless 830869. Don't be afraid of the size. This guy will get to F3 33.5Hz in a 1.7 ft3 box and put out 102 dB at 20 watts. Right at the xmax limit. Can probably take more watts and survive.
Click to expand...

Probably good advice. I haven't included the PA310 in my data base to run designs on cause I am waaaayyyy CHEAP. I also have not looked at the whole design (including crossover) so I don't know where that is.

Fastbike: Which software package did you get that from. I do not get port velocity out of WinISD.

Thanks

Shelly_D
 
The software is Jeff Bagby's Woofer Box and Circuit Designer. Primarily a sub designer with provisions for modeling plate amps. Runs in Excel. Jeff is also the author of Passive Crossover Designer and a Baffle Diffraction Simulator.

You might also try Unibox. Also runs in Excel and will give excursion, port velocity etc. I use Jeff's program the most because Unibox will not let you enter a port length, only diameter and tuning. My mind works more from a port size, does that tuning work perspective. Another fun program is Boxycad. Very handy, include a "woofer volume calculator". Helps you get closer to the true internal volume for modeling. Jeff's program does account for the volume occupied for the vent.

The PA310s are ~$75/driver and can handle big power. I really recommend you take a look at the Peerless 830869 for a smaller driver. Its an 8 inch but models well. It has a very smooth response curve. I have not actually built with the Peerless yet, but it is likely to be my next EWave.

The EWave crosses at 1600 Hz, so you need a woofer that's smooth beyond that. Another key for the EWave is to mount the drivers as close together as possible. Unlike other designs, flush mounting of drivers isn't a big concern. NEither is baffle diffraction. The Pyle waveguide and Selenium compression driver are really slick. These are not your traditional beamy horns.

The crossover has different versions for woofer efficiency and impedance, so have a care when ordering components and building. Watch driver polarity as well. Also seems to be relatively insensitive to box lining/stuffing although I haven't experiemented much. Been enjoying the listening too much to take the speakers out of service.

I should add that the DC300's are an excellent driver for the bucks. If one is on a tight budget, you will be happy with them. I am (but I am running them sealed).

You might guess that I really like the EWave design :D

Larry
 
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fastbike said:
The software is Jeff Bagby's Woofer Box and Circuit Designer. Primarily a sub designer with provisions for modeling plate amps. Runs in Excel. Jeff is also the author of Passive Crossover Designer and a Baffle Diffraction Simulator.

You might also try Unibox. Also runs in Excel and will give excursion, port velocity etc. I use Jeff's program the most because Unibox will not let you enter a port length, only diameter and tuning. My mind works more from a port size, does that tuning work perspective. Another fun program is Boxycad. Very handy, include a "woofer volume calculator". Helps you get closer to the true internal volume for modeling. Jeff's program does account for the volume occupied for the vent.

...
Click to expand...

Thank you. I'm looking into all 3.

Shelly_D
 
I think I'm starting to get the hang of this software. Looks like I can get the bass I want out of the DC300-8 after all. I just need to use four of them per side with 14 ft^3 boxes :lmao: I bet that would sound interesting.

BTW, WinISD pro has port velocity, but it only seems to show up if you select rear port.
 
Actually, looks like dual DC300-8s can do pretty well. Has anyone tried an e-wave with dual woofers? I assume it could totally mess up the integration with the horn? Er, I mean, waveguide.
 
Thinking about Peerless 830669 now. Good for the low end, looks like it might be okay to right around e-wave crossover... Can't seem to decide if I want to keep things in this thread or not.
 
Anybody see any obvious no-nos or other errors in this modeling attempt? Aside from it being rather massive, that is. I'm not sure if my reasoning is correct on what to aim for as far as adding some power to the model (see below).

- 8 ft^3 vented box tuned to 30 Hz
- 14cm x 14cm port if no flange (um, is that cool?)
- peak air velocity of port 17.5 m/s
- xmax hit at 80W
- ~110dB average at 80W
- after a gentle rise under ~200 Hz, response goes from:
+2.6dB at 38 Hz
-0dB at 29 Hz
-3dB at 26 Hz
-6dB at 23.5 Hz
 
the only real potential issue here is the unloading below 30- not much of an issue but you might want to put a protection cap before the amp (or use a pre-fabbed connector based solution like the harrison labs stuff) just to limit the stuff below tuning.

dumptruck said:
Anybody see any obvious no-nos or other errors in this modeling attempt? Aside from it being rather massive, that is. I'm not sure if my reasoning is correct on what to aim for as far as adding some power to the model (see below).

- 8 ft^3 vented box tuned to 30 Hz
- 14cm x 14cm port if no flange (um, is that cool?)
- peak air velocity of port 17.5 m/s
- xmax hit at 80W
- ~110dB average at 80W
- after a gentle rise under ~200 Hz, response goes from:
+2.6dB at 38 Hz
-0dB at 29 Hz
-3dB at 26 Hz
-6dB at 23.5 Hz
Click to expand...
 
badman said:
the only real potential issue here is the unloading below 30
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. When I plot excursion with 80W to get the xmax limit at 40 Hz, it hits xmax the second time at around ~25, below which it skyrockets into the impossible. Am I correct in thinking that this is around where the unloading you are speaking of would cause a problem?
 
It'll work in smaller cabs with a bit of boom. I think I'd try that, too.

It's also a closed-box woofer from the parameters....
 
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