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Speakers with accurate timbres?

barredowl

barredowl

Before and after Science
This is an item to discuss speakers that are accurate to the timbre of musical instruments. My JBL C51 Apollos are truly startlingly realistic in the mid range, a piano sounds like a piano and a cello sounds like a cello. They don't do everything well, they roll off at the bottom around 50 hz and at the top around 15,000 and I thick they are exaggerated in the upper bass/lower mid range, but for the timbre of certain acoustic instruments they are great.

So a couple of questions:

1. What speakers have you heard that reproduced the tone of musical instruments strikingly well? Did they all tend to be a certain driver type like electrostatic, horn, or enclosure type like transmission line enclosure, etc.

2. What are the measurable parameters that tell us that a speaker will accurately reproduce the timbre of instruments? Frequency response curves, and the waterfall plot I assume are involved, and perhaps phase, and impedance, anything else?
 
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1- Genesis 1 (or Infinity IRS 1) is the best speaker I have ever auditioned by a large margin. It is just very very large, powerful, detailed, and well balanced tone.

2- Measurements can be used to screen out speakers that have major issues, but alone cannot be used to judge speaker quality. Two speakers with similar measurements can sound different. Also the more complex measurements needs a lot of judging, more like listening do. The most usable and simple measurement is spl spectrum (a 2d graph of frequency vs spl) but it requires an anechoic chamber.
 
AngelRa I am talking about something more tightly focused than generally good but rather specifically the accurate reproduction of the tonal or timberal qualities of instruments. I almost wonder if this basic quality has been lost in the obsessive pursuit of soundstage and imaging?
 
My Kef Reference 103.2 have seriously impressed me with their accurate representation of an instrument's timbre. I've only had them about a month, and I can't remember how many times I've thought "wow...that really sounds like a .....".
 
barredowl said:
This is an item to discuss speakers that are accurate to the timbre of musical instruments. My JBL C51 Apollos are truly startlingly realistic in the mid range, a piano sounds like a piano and a cello sounds like a cello. They don't do everything well, they roll off at the bottom around 50 hz and at the top around 15,000 and I thick they are exaggerated in the upper bass/lower mid range, but for the timbre of certain acoustic instruments they are great.

So a couple of questions:

1. What speakers have you heard that reproduced the tone of musical instruments strikingly well? Did they all tend to be a certain driver type like electrostatic, horn, or enclosure type like transmission line enclosure, etc.

2. What are the measurable parameters that tell us that a speaker will accurately reproduce the timbre of instruments? Frequency response curves, and the waterfall plot I assume are involved, and perhaps phase, and impedance, anything else?
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To me, speakers that reproduce tones of instruments and voice, especially women voices as you say, strikingly well, tend to vary in design and configuration. The only parameters that I know are my ears, if I like it, then there are good speakers. There is one parameter that I follow, matching the speakers to the Amp, very important.
The speakers that I like the most tends to be on the compact type, except my HPM100, they are a bit on the large side to be called compact.
So here goes: TOTEM, the Mite, the Model-1 Signature, and the Mani-2 signature.
Reference 3A, the Dulcet and the mm De Capo.
 
Are you saying the Genesis 1 is not accurate enough?
_wsb_753x502_Genesis+1.2.jpg


Speakers are not made to have instrument timbral accuracy, they are to reproduce whatever comes in, any sound, voice, instruments, fx, distortion, noise,... Timbral accuracy is a part of the perception of this reproduction.

Speakers are not instruments, they are linear transducers.
 
Harbeth

Once upon a time I was listening to some Harbeths at the distributors shop. The Harbeths were playing at a reasonable lvel in a back room. The dealer and I were up front when a couple of guys came in. They immediately said "somebody's playing a violin in the back" and headed for the demo room.

When they came up front they said they truly thought there was live music in the back. The Harbeths truly could convince one that live instruments were in the room.

I have also heard Maggie 1.6s that clearly projected pick drag on an acoustic guitar as well as the subtle resoance in the sound box.
 
AngelRa said:
1- Genesis 1 (or Infinity IRS 1) is the best speaker I have ever auditioned by a large margin. It is just very very large, powerful, detailed, and well balanced tone.
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You mean the old Genesis 1 with the 8" woofer and inverted dome tweeter from the early eighties?

My vote goes to the MG-20.1 from Magnepan. The finest speaker I've ever had the pleasure to listen to.
 
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Individual instruments are recognized by the spectral makeup of their unique harmonic content. It's how we can tell a piano middle C from the same note on a violin; the fundamental tone is the same frequency, but the harmonic content is different.

For a speaker to reproduce timbral qualities accurately, it has to reproduce the fundamental and all the harmonic content in the exact proportions as the original (flat reponse) without adding any harmonics of its' own (quite the challenge really).
 
Ohm Walsh 5.

The big IRS is great - if you keep your head in a vise in the sweet spot - as a line source of that size demands.

The Walsh 5 does comparable quality of reproduction thruoughout the entire room and for a small fraction of the price.
 
Cogito said:
You mean the old Genesis 1 with the 8" woofer and inverted dome tweeter from the early eighties?

My vote goes to the MG-20.1 from Magnepan. The finest speaker I've ever had the pleasure to listen to.
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I posted a photo in post #9 above.
 
Art K. said:
That really is an excellent speaker.
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When I'm an old man living in a condo or have a den type system, I really believe that I will have a pair of Alan Shaws speakers. Harbeth are fantastic speakers and impossible to get out of your system once you hear a pair.

marc mc
 
Could people please post more details about the speakers they feel are accurate what about them you think makes them more accurate than others like drivers, enclosure type, crossover, etc, and things they do badly as well and whether you think that is a necessary tradeoff to obtain accurate timbre. Thanks!

For my JBLs I think it's the design of the drivers with a large voice coil with tight tolerances of the woofer and possibly the fact that the woofer is an extended range driver crossed over high giving it almost full range driver characteristics. It's almost certainly not the handbuilt vented "Apollo" cabinets IMO, nor do I imagine it's the 40 year old crossover deign.
 
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marc mc said:
When I'm an old man living in a condo or have a den type system, I really believe that I will have a pair of Alan Shaws speakers. Harbeth are fantastic speakers and impossible to get out of your system once you hear a pair.

marc mc
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Excellent for home offices as well. As much as I like them though the DeVore 3 will get you an extra octave on the bottom end and not sacrifice anything relative to the open window into the music in the middle and top. Excellent small room monitors...too bad John decided to discontinue them. They are truly special.
 
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