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VOTT's Singing!

toxcrusadr

toxcrusadr

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Well I had some fun on the weekend with VOTT’s out on the patio! Finally a long-incubating project comes to fruition.

Short version: Perfect weather, speakers 25 feet apart, me sitting 25 feet back, was quite an experience! Pics coming.

Background: A couple years ago I was playing around with filling these ugly Altec VOTT 828H cabinets and building a mid/tweet array since I had no Altec horns with them:

Thread: http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=503824&highlight=828H

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Last fall, the gracious host of the KC Twangfest, Jaymanaa, gave me a much nicer pair, so the Big Reds went to another audiophile who was looking for some. Saved me a lot of refinishing and cleared out Jay’s closet.

At that time I also got hold of a pair of 511b horns with Renkus-Heinz drivers from dc270 down in TX. The horns already have damping material applied.

Thread [Bartertown]: http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=533917&highlight=altec+crossover

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I built some crossovers mostly out of recycled stuff over the winter, which we tried out at Twangfest this spring on some other gear. Clone of the 809-8A, 2d order, 1000Hz with an Lpad for the horn, and a big PCB oil cap in the horn section.

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They still need the outer oak boxes built.

Last weekend I loaded the ca. 1970 CTS 15” woofers (mentioned in the first linked thread) into the cabinets, hooked everything up and powered them with a Denon PMA 1080r integrated (ca. 1994, 105 wpc).

Results: SWEET! I gotta say, vocals, piano and guitar sound GREAT on these. With no side walls or ceiling to reflect off of, everything was so crisp and clear.

They needed some equalizing, seemed shouty in the mids and the low bass was not there. I hooked up a Pioneer SG-9500 EQ and fiddled a bit. I’ll post the settings but basically I was cutting the mids just a tad and doing a little cutting and boosting in the bass range. I know the cabinets are designed to drop off at 50 Hz with the original Altec woofers, so I was not expecting abundant deep bass, but just a little boost in the lower ranges rounded them out. They had a boom around 400 that I managed to control. This is all by the seat of my pants, no sig gen sweeps yet. I was also told that blocking off a portion of the reflex vent might extend the bass response, and have yet to try that.

You can’t really have your stereo on the patio permanently in MO, but it sure sounded nice. :banana:
 
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wow, sound like fun! yep, pics needed...

there is a solo VOTT on the local craigslist. would be fun to find 2.
 
Congrats on the joy of listening outdoors. This is my favorite place to listen to music. I agree with all your comments on outdoor sound. No reflections from walls close to you, very clear, very articulate. Careful, outdoor listening is addictive, and if you do it a lot, you'll get permanently dissatisfied with listening within the confines of buildings. For this, I am thankful for the LONG summers in Texas. I usually set my system up with the speakers 50 feet apart, and I sit 50 feet from each speaker (IOW, 35 feet back) - or further.

The second picture doesn't show for me, nor can I go to the link you included. Strange. I look forward to the additional promised pictures.
 
Kris - not sure what's happening with the pic, #2 is actually one of dc270's pics of the horns and drivers from the for-sale thread. Anyway you'll see them below...

Dukie: Enabler! :tongue: However the building is supposed to be a wood shop, so... :scratch2:

Closeup of the workings:
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These are on home made mobile bases with recycled casters for easy moving. No idea whether that's a good idea in terms of floor coupling, but it makes them easy to move without putting holes in them.
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Edge of the concrete is a great listening position.
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Oh yeah, the 211 you could just park at that door opening and use as a center channel.
You know you want it... :D
 
Will that thing work as a sub or is it basically a double sized A7? Cause what I really need in there is a sub. :yes: Size is no object, I got 3000 sq ft. :thmbsp:
 
toxcrusadr said:
Kris - not sure what's happening with the pic, #2 is actually one of dc270's pics of the horns and drivers from the for-sale thread. Anyway you'll see them below...
Click to expand...

Lookin' good! Your explanation makes sense as to why I can't see the picture or thread, I have to pay money for that.
 
Oh, duh. Glad we got that sorted out. I added a note to the original link.

One more thing I wanted to mention about the crossovers (I learned all this stuff from dc270 and threads by Redboy, Zilch and others): The original Altec horn drivers fall off above 12kHz. Zilch designed a crossover to compensate, which can be found in a thread wherein Redboy is (was) building something similar to what I have here only with Altec horn drivers. I actually had those compensated crossovers in my hands via Jaymanaa. However these R-H drivers (according to their specs) extend full range, so the same compensation is not required. I just made a 2-way crossover with two 2.2/2.5 mH inductors, two 18 uF caps and the L pad. I suppose if I was really smart I could introduce some compensation to control the midrange peak so these wouldn't need any EQ.
 
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toxcrusadr said:
Will that thing work as a sub or is it basically a double sized A7? Cause what I really need in there is a sub. :yes: Size is no object, I got 3000 sq ft. :thmbsp:
Click to expand...
No, not really as a "sub".

But, 210 loads the drivers nicely, with smooth usable output down to 30hz, and don't need a sub mucking things up for most "music".

Build a pair, they really have to be heard to be appreciated. :D Use drawings for the late model that will accept woofers with 16 and 15 inch frames.

Here's FR plots comparing the 828(top) and 210(bottom) loaded with 515G driver. http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/specs/components/515g/page3.jpg

Also note that the addition of properly braced wings will effectively help support and extend the LF of any of the VOT's.
 
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bowtie427ss said:
No, not really as a "sub".

But, 210 loads the drivers nicely, with smooth usable output down to 30hz, and don't need a sub mucking things up for most "music".

Build a pair, they really have to be heard to be appreciated. :D Use drawings for the late model that will accept woofers with 16 and 15 inch frames.

Here's FR plots comparing the 828(top) and 210(bottom) loaded with 515G driver. http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/specs/components/515g/page3.jpg

Also note that the addition of properly braced wings will effectively help support and extend the LF of any of the VOT's.
Click to expand...

Wowie. No wonder 828's are so easy to come by. I just didn't know there was a better option. I like the wing idea, much easier than starting from scratch as I have other projects...in the wings, so to speak. How big would they have to be, and what would proper bracing look like? Would they translate from the 210 drawings?
 
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Holy schnickies...might be fun though. I do like bass extension (not boom-boom, I assure you). These were eventually going to live in front of the Great Wall of Doors. I wonder if I could use some kind of design for them that would compliment the background. Of course they could be painted any color. Do they have to be 100% smooth? What if they looked like an old fashioned inset panel door? What if they WERE inset panel doors? :scratch2:

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You can really build a killer outdoor system with fairly broad FR for not a lot of coin if you select the right goodies.

Now, be on the prowl for another pair of 511's/drivers, you'll need to stack them to get the HF sensitivity up closer to that of the LF, and to keep up dynamically. GM has made some very informative posts about this setup in the past on the Altec board.

As for the profile of the wings, i don't think smooth is really a requisite at the frequencies where they have the most effect. Heck, some paneled doors are probably just as well if not better braced by coincidence of the way they're made.
 
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