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Wharfedale W60's

Unican_Eric

Unican_Eric

Pioneerious Collecticus
I picked up a set of Warfdale W60's at the pawn shop today, They have some scuffs and scraps but can be refinished quite easily. They have the red magnets on the drivers and the grills and badges are intact. The only problem with them is the midrange/tweeter needs to be refoamed on one speaker. The cost $30 Canadian.
Can anyone shed some light on these beasts? Power , impedance etc.?
 
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WHARF SPK, W60
Description:
Manufacture Years: 1962 - 1966
Additional Information:
Retail
MSRP: $240.00
 
same thing here

i know this is an old post, but i wanted to ask about these paper cone tweeters and didn't want to take up more space. i have a set of W60 's that are 2-way with the 12" woofer and a paper cone tweeter. i have one that has had the foam disintegrated and was googling and searching the forum for info and noticed that some of the W60 's came with purple dome tweeters. can i use these as a drop in, or is the crossover sending the paper cone some mid info, too? any other good solutions? if anything, the paper cone tweeters are a little lacking in the sparkling highs compared to my other speakers (Yamaha NS-225, and JBL C38).

thanks very much in advance!

--donnysparks
 
There is a W60 and a W60D. The W60 used a Super3 Tweeter and the W60D use another design (fried egg cone) since the system designs are different. The Super3 had several versions and depedning on vintage used either the foam or a wool surround. Whafredale wa an early adopter of foam and learned its lesson and moved away from it later. 1st coice would probably to see if yours can be re-foamed and 2nd would be to locate another set of the Super3 tweeters with the non-foam surrounds. I believe the x-over frequency of the fried egg tweeter is different and hence is not a direct replacement. The Super3 has been showing up on eBay somewhat consistently but not in large quantities.
 
Thanks, Brian. I'll check with a local speaker repair place and keep an eye out on ebay. the low end on these are great (the woofers have cloth surrounds and are fine), if i could just get the high end sounding good! these things are very well built. i'll post some pics of the paper cone tweets for archival purposes since i couldn't find any with a forum search.

--donnysparks
 
You should check the caps in the x-over while you have the unit open or get a set of replacement set and change them out.
 
W60 tweeters

donnysparks said:
Thanks, Brian. I'll check with a local speaker repair place and keep an eye out on ebay. the low end on these are great (the woofers have cloth surrounds and are fine), if i could just get the high end sounding good! these things are very well built. i'll post some pics of the paper cone tweets for archival purposes since i couldn't find any with a forum search.

--donnysparks
Click to expand...
The Wharfedale speaker components becomes rather confusing with the different versions of the "W" series.

The original W60 is a 2 way system whose introduction was largely influenced by the success of the KLH 6. The W60 also had a 1500 cps crossover like the KLH 6. The problem facing Wharfedale was power handling from 1500 cps on up. The Super 3 is a superb tweeter from 3000-5000 cps and up but lacked power handling below that point. A variation of the Super 3, which always had a red banded alnico magnet, phenolic spider and grey wool cloth suspension was used and simply refered to as a "5 high frequency driver" The cone itself measures 3-3/8" compared to 2-1/2" on the Super 3.

The "5" inch highfrequency driver used in the original 2 way W60 was not known for extreme high end extension but was very smooth and non strident sounding and certainly very musical.

The original W70 DID use the Super 3 which was possible due to the 3 way design and higher crossover to the tweeter.

The "5" version does pop up on Ebay periodically. It was also used in the original W40 model.

Hope this adds some clarity to the confusion ! Dave :)
 
Thanks for the replies!

Brian: Yes, I was thinking about the caps, but I didn't want to open a new can of worms just yet. None of the caps appear to be leaking, at least. You know I saw those tweeters but for some reason I decided that they weren't the ones. Thanks for catching that! However, now I know why they looked strange to me:

Dave: Interestingly enough, the 5 is what my W60 appears to have. it has a red band around the magnet, measures 3 3/8" across the cone, and has no other markings besides "Wharfedale" and "Made in England". But it has (or had!) FOAM surrounds.

So at this point I have to choose I guess between buying some super 3's and improving the upper highs but sacrificing power handling at high mids, or having new surrounds placed on the original 5's, maintaining originality but suffering a bit in the upper highs. What would you guys do?

--ray
 
I have the 3 way W60D Mark II's. Different animal. I love the sound of them.

As for your speakers, I would do them up stock if I were you. My KLH 23's lack some in the way upper end but I think it is nice and makes it warm.
 
Well, since you can not use the Super3s, I'll go for them since it will give me a backup set for the W70s. Sorry for the misinformation. The caps do not have to show leakage. More oft than not it is the other way in that they hav dried out internally. My set looked absolutely new and at first I suspected the tweeters. After finding they were both good, without even measuring the caps, I simply replaced tham and all was fine in this land of Oz.
 
ok, i'm going to try and get these refoamed and start researching on recapping them. Brian, go ahead and get those super3's. Thanks again everyone for the input. I'll report back with the progress of things.
--ray
 
"5 " high frequency drivers"

Every "5" I've seen had grey wool cloth surrounds but I believe you when you say the're foam. I don't know of a source for refoaming or "rewooling" those tiny tweeters. They are, in either material, a flat surround and could be cut yourself if you can find either thin wool cloth or thin cellular foam. Usually the cloth version has insect hole damage but those small holes won't impact performance.

Brian is absolutely right about the old electrolitic caps. Most were made by Dubilier and look new but are dried out. I know the value is 12 mfd. and Daytons, Bennics or Solens will work fine. I've used Solens for everything. They aren't the cheapest but are far from being the most expensive. They have excellent electrical specs and are "Fabrique en Francais" if that makes a difference to you.

I, too, would opt for keeping your W60's original. I think you'll see quite a difference in high end clarity & extension with new caps. Good Luck, Dave :D
 
Hey cool, another Wharfy resto to talk about. I'm into my W70Ds now. Perhaps we can compare notes as we go. I'm going to do the cabs, first. Partly since I'm having one of the mids re-coiled. I've got some largish chips to the solid wood molding of the cabs, and because of the way their constructed they really can't be replaced without completely rebuilding the cabinets, which I'm not at all into. I could never hope to match the orriginal workmanship if I tried.
Instead I am considering having a cabinet maker friend of mine re-route the mouldings to take out the bad nicks and chips. I mean quite bad. I don't think it would look right if I tried the old bondo and woodputy tricks. So I'm going to have to take out about 1/4" on all of them, both cabs. I'll let ya'll know how this works. I really think it's the best solution.
 
weird... I have W60's (not Ds) and the high-end/clarity is pretty damn good. I think a recap would definately help, also not sure if it was mentions but did you check/clean the L-pads? I haven't recapped mine yet because they seem perfectly fine, so I'll save it for another day. Thank God for the British and their cloth surrounds :)

I have pics if anyone wants to see inside the cabs, just say the word. Good luck with the restoration!
 
Milo

I think you can trim a 1/4" off the mouldings without going into any particle board - unlike most stuff today. Just do a really, really thorough magnet check for any nails or screws that might be holding the mouldings on.

Tom
 
That front moulding is definately thick. Have you been able to get the front grille off of your speakers? My W60s dont seem to have an easy way to get the grille off, and mine are torn in a few places. I think the moulding would have to come off on my W60s.
 
I also have a pair of 60Ws. Tweeters initially didn't work but Deoxit in the L-pad brought them back to life. Overall the sound is muddy paired with my Sherwood S-5000 and not nearly as good as what I expected from an expensive English import of that era. I assumed that the caps are electrolytic and couldn't possibly be within spec. It has been a while since I had opened them up but recall the crossover was simple and very accessible. I have yet to re-cap a crossover and have some KLH-Fives in dire need of caps as well. If it is just a straight foward .12mf cap exchange then I think I can handle it. The grills do not appear easy to replace and the cabs are built like cement anchors. They are way heavier than they look and are apparently sand filled? Although my grills are perfect, the nubby green, tan and gold fabric looks really dated even for a vintage speaker. I think the KLH-Fives are very attractive even with their original flax like coffee au lait fabric. Wish there was an easy way to replace the grills on the Wharfedales.
 
The redo is actually pretty easy. Do need a hotglue gun or other adhesive, soldering iron, clippers, solder. Also, when you get the caps, get some shrinktubing or tube insulation.

Depending on config, and what you find easy. locate a spont on the x-over to mount the cap. think about polarity and existing wire length when you do this. The exising can can be left in place and used as a mounting point or removed and the new cap mounted on the board. I left the original in place and mounted mine on the bracket. If for some reason when I am gone Jr. sells them and the new owner wants to restore them to orinal, he can open the can and rebuilt. This should what 120,000x the value 50 years from now. If NPO, then simply connect the existing wiring and if polarized do the same but maintain the polarity. Oh, make sure you first put on the tubing or make sure you have the wiring located in such a position it will not touch anything. Also, clean the leads coming from the new cap. Mine really filthy.

At first the system will sound like SH*T. Do not despare. Simply through on the FM and let it run. Need not do it at high volume, simply trying to get the cap to form. The time depends on the cap. Mine took about 50 hours to get to a point where I knew what I had. I have about 300 hours on the system now and last night listening it mid to tweeter transition is completely seamless now, better than any speaker I own.

The guys here can give suggestions as to what caps to use. I simply went down to the local parts shops and picked up poly pros that were about $2.00 ea. MFD was the same whle the voltage was higher by 10 volts if I remember. Now that I know what the speakers can really so and they are keepers, I plan to research a better cap and do a sub. The caps in your W60s are 12mfd? Writing this took about the time to do the actualy cap changeover once the x-over is accessable, the glue set and the soldering iron is warmed up.
 
w60 re-do

I've had my W60's since 1970 so have played aorund with them a little. Once, long ago, I took out the smaller speakers and dropped in some dome tweeters. Bad idea for now obvious reasons, lost the midrange etc. Recently I found a pair of the original W60 cone speakers with good surrounds, with crossovers, on ebay for very little, had them put back in, and externally wired some dome tweeters (AVS, I think?..at 6khz crossover), which sit in top. Best of both worlds! these are seriously nice sounding speakers now. Only problem now is getting them up off the ground high enough and still safe in earthquake country .
 
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