The Turntable

gillsev

Well-Known Member
Be it Idler Drive, Belt Drive, Direct Drive/ Pivoted Arm, Linear Arm/ Moving Magnet or Moving Coil pickups: What are your expectations when you buy a turntable? Do you buy for the accuracy of reproduction, or the art of reproduction? When there are more means of accurate and more convenient sources such as CD's, MP3's, Pandora, etc ... why do we even bother with an obsolete phonograph? Maybe because it is such a masterpiece?

We appreciate pictures of snapshots. They are accurately portrayed through our digital camera, but a painting of it is more alluring and interesting although not accurately portrayed. It is the personal touch of the artist that brings the canvas to life. That's what makes it special and personal.

I think it is synonymous as to why we still so desire the craftsmanship of the old phonograph, when the stylus hits the groove and bring the music to life (the old fashion way). It has its own character :yes:
 
My base expectations include pitch accuracy/consistency, lithe tracking, and ability to reject resonances and vibrations.

It has to look good too; I'm a sucker for enticing industrial design.*
(*I must admit that this is one of the reasons I bought a Thorens TD-124 before actually hearing one! I am infatuated with its classic MCM visual elegance.)

Beyond that, my performance expectations are in proportion to the price paid.

But to answer your real question: the appeal of the phonograph vs. those other more convenient formats is the tactile experience of placing the disc on the platter, going through the ritual of cleaning the disc, setting the arm down, and watching it go 'round and 'round while music comes out of the speakers.

Of course, there are many people who are turned off by this and just want to hear music without any fuss. Isn't it great that here in the early 21st century we have viable options available for everyone?
 
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I want it to perform reasonably, but looks are certainly a factor. I wouldn't keep an attractive, but unstable or poorly performing machine but I may keep something that sounded amazing but was so-so in the looks department.

As to why turntables? I like the interaction with the records, but I also don't mind fixing them. I despise tape transports, and I've got no luck with CD players. I also own somewhere around 1000 records but maybe 50 CDs and not a single tape. I have fun searching for records too. I can't make myself go online and just purchase anything that comes to mind, but if I pull some gem out of a box at the flea market or at a record store, I feel like I "won" or something. Its silly, but its a fairly cheap way to keep me out of trouble.
 
But to answer your real question: the appeal of the phonograph vs. those other more convenient formats is the tactile experience of placing the disc on the platter, going through the ritual of cleaning the disc, setting the arm down, and watching it go 'round and 'round while music comes out of the speakers.

This is exactly who I am too! It is not only about the music, but the nostalgic ritual of interaction. As I watch my TD124 or Garrard Lab 80 play my records: I don't know if I watch more than I listen, to tell you the truth. It just fascinates me to watch it go round and round, looking at my stylus and the beauty of its tonearm (or the scientific design of the Z2000B's zero tracking arm) as it plays your music.


Of course, there are many people who are turned off by this and just want to hear music without any fuss. Isn't it great that here in the early 21st century we have viable options available for everyone?

You can call me sentimental, but I like all the fuss of retro. I am even into 78's and their music of an era gone by is growing on me too.
 
I can't make myself go online and just purchase anything that comes to mind, but if I pull some gem out of a box at the flea market or at a record store, I feel like I "won" or something. Its silly, but its a fairly cheap way to keep me out of trouble.

I like your analogy there Gadget! I feel the same way :thmbsp:
 
This is exactly who I am too! It is not only about the music, but the nostalgic ritual of interaction. As I watch my TD124 or Garrard Lab 80 play my records: I don't know if I watch more than I listen, to tell you the truth. It just fascinates me to watch it go round and round, looking at my stylus and the beauty of its tonearm (or the scientific design of the Z2000B's zero tracking arm) as it plays your music.




You can call me sentimental, but I like all the fuss of retro. I am even into 78's and their music of an era gone by is growing on me too.

You and I definitely see eye to eye on this! :yes:

I bet you can easily find some awesome western swing 78s out there in Tulsa!
 
Be it Idler Drive, Belt Drive, Direct Drive/ Pivoted Arm, Linear Arm/ Moving Magnet or Moving Coil pickups: What are your expectations when you buy a turntable? Do you buy for the accuracy of reproduction, or the art of reproduction? When there are more means of accurate and more convenient sources such as CD's, MP3's, Pandora, etc ... why do we even bother with an obsolete phonograph? Maybe because it is such a masterpiece?

We appreciate pictures of snapshots. They are accurately portrayed through our digital camera, but a painting of it is more alluring and interesting although not accurately portrayed. It is the personal touch of the artist that brings the canvas to life. That's what makes it special and personal.

I think it is synonymous as to why we still so desire the craftsmanship of the old phonograph, when the stylus hits the groove and bring the music to life (the old fashion way). It has its own character :yes:

May I just please ask you to "spell this out" for me:
"When there are more means of accurate and more convenient sources such as CD's, MP3's, Pandora...."

Are you suggesting that CD, MP3 and Pandora are more accurate sources that a TT?

But besides that, I sense a kind of enthusiasm about TTs in your post.
:thmbsp:
 
May I just please ask you to "spell this out" for me:
"When there are more means of accurate and more convenient sources such as CD's, MP3's, Pandora...."

Are you suggesting that CD, MP3 and Pandora are more accurate sources that a TT?

Yeah, that caught my attention too, but I chose to let it go. :)
 
Are you suggesting that CD, MP3 and Pandora are more accurate sources than a TT?

Synonymous that an LP microgroove record is a more accurate medium than a 78 rpm shellac. We have progressed through the years and we've gone a long way but we still couldn't totally eliminate "ticks" and "pops" that are inherent in the LP.
 
Synonymous that an LP microgroove record is a more accurate medium than a 78 rpm shellac. We have progressed through the years and we've gone a long way but we still couldn't totally eliminate "ticks" and "pops" that are inherent in the LP.

I think you're confusing "accuracy" with "perfection." Digital is not "accurate" due to its unavoidable resolution limitations.
 
I think you're confusing "accuracy" with "perfection." Digital is not "accurate" due to its unavoidable resolution limitations.

Except for high-frequency extension, where the Nyquist-Shannon Sampling Theorem provides a hard upper limit in the near ultrasonic frequency range, the LP is more resolution-limited than the CD. The signal-to-noise ratio of a quiet LP on a top-notch turntable barely reaches the equivalent of 13 bits (78 dB), vs. 90+ dB for the CD medium. LP playback systems also offer much poorer stereo separation and much higher harmonic and intermodulation distortion than a competently-designed CD player or transport/DAC combo.
 
This is exactly who I am too! It is not only about the music, but the nostalgic ritual of interaction. As I watch my TD124 or Garrard Lab 80 play my records: I don't know if I watch more than I listen, to tell you the truth. It just fascinates me to watch it go round and round, looking at my stylus and the beauty of its tonearm (or the scientific design of the Z2000B's zero tracking arm) as it plays your music.




You can call me sentimental, but I like all the fuss of retro. I am even into 78's and their music of an era gone by is growing on me too.


+1! :thmbsp:
 
As for "ticks and pops" if the records are in good shape and effective methods of cleaning are used that is no longer a concern, my records play as quiet as any CD, digital etc. I grew up around turntables/records and I havn't parted with the past I enjoyed.
 
Well to add my thoughts....I have returned to vinyl, a vintage Thorens purchase drove me here...I am 59 years young this year and boy did I miss the fuss of putting a record on that mechanical wonder...and listen to the clarity and smooth, lush sound...

CD's have been a wonder of convenience and sound....but, good vinyl coupled with a good player rocks...IMHO
 
Gaaah, please don't turn this thread into a vinyl vs. CD thing :D Besides we know where that is going, one format is growing in sales and the other is declining... ;) (let's not look at the actual numbers...)

Regarding what I want out of a turntable - I just want to be the basic to be well and all the rest is extra (better tonearms, etc.) - if it spins at correct speed and holds it steady and doesn't exhibit excessive rumble, I'm happy. Preferably it should look good doing it and feel good using it. What this has meant to me in practice, is that after constant turntable shopping and trying out during the past year, I seem to have settled with Telefunken S-600, Connoisseur BD2 and Thorens TD-160 - to me they seem reasonably close in performance, the Connoisseur being the weakest in absolute terms, but it makes up for its shortcomings with a sound that is probably a bit colored, but damn engaging and just plain fun in loads.

As far as design goes, I started out being sort of direct drive fan, but now I seem to prefer belt drives and idlers. I can't say that's really for any sound quality reasons, but one thing I like about belt drive tables I can understand everything about them - the electronics are usually simple enough, even if there's some 'extras' like in the case of the Telefunken I have - in the end it boils down to a platter on top of a bearing, spun around by a belt attached to a simple motor.

I do like some heavy idler drive torque though and manual idlers are simple enough as well :) So I wouldn't mind owning something like a tricked out Lenco or a Garrard 301/401. I already have a Dual 1229 and while it's a decent turntable, in the end I have to admit it doesn't do it for me.
 
Regarding what I want out of a turntable - I just want to be the basic to be well and all the rest is extra (better tonearms, etc.) - if it spins at correct speed and holds it steady and doesn't exhibit excessive rumble, I'm happy.

You're pretty much summed up with this Garrard ad. After all, this is all what a turntable is ...

garrardad.jpg


Also a Garrard lover here: :banana:
Garrard Lab 80/ Garrard A70/ Garrard Z2000B
 
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