Question for Classical Music Fans: what cartridge?

lorne

Sonic Lizard
Subscriber
What are you using to play classical music? Anyone getting satisfaction with MM?

Now that I have decided to get back into classical music, I am agonizing (irrationally) over the fact that I sold my Denon MC cartridges and broke another some years ago.

Conventional wisdom says that for complex orchestral pieces, MC cartridges are a necessity if you want to hear the complete performance. Well, as you all know, the prices for MC have bolted into the stratosphere — beyond my budget. (More frustrating cuz my Melos pre-amp can be finely adjusted for gain).

My current main cartridge is a Shure V15 Type IV with a Jico SAS HE stylus. It does a pretty good job — but I am wondering. I'd like to know what all you TT enthusiasts who love and play classical are using — especially you who use MM cartridges. That being said, I'd like any comments from both sides of the MM/MC fence.

(Aside: Good and interesting vinyl is expensive here in Northern Japan. And, interesting, junk store vinyl is really hard to find as well as very frustrating to look for unless you like 30 year old J-pops (no, thanks!). But sometimes a trove of nasty, worn classical vinyl turns up. Nasty, but sometimes very interesting stuff as in great conductors and amazing orchestras from decades long past. For that, I have bought a cheap Nagaoka with a conical stylus in order to preserve my SAS stylus on the V15. (Sometimes the raw music is more important than perfect fidelity.))
 
What are you using to play classical music? Anyone getting satisfaction with MM?

Now that I have decided to get back into classical music, I am agonizing (irrationally) over the fact that I sold my Denon MC cartridges and broke another some years ago.

Conventional wisdom says that for complex orchestral pieces, MC cartridges are a necessity if you want to hear the complete performance. Well, as you all know, the prices for MC have bolted into the stratosphere — beyond my budget. (More frustrating cuz my Melos pre-amp can be finely adjusted for gain).

My current main cartridge is a Shure V15 Type IV with a Jico SAS HE stylus. It does a pretty good job — but I am wondering. I'd like to know what all you TT enthusiasts who love and play classical are using — especially you who use MM cartridges. That being said, I'd like any comments from both sides of the MM/MC fence.

(Aside: Good and interesting vinyl is expensive here in Northern Japan. And, interesting, junk store vinyl is really hard to find as well as very frustrating to look for unless you like 30 year old J-pops (no, thanks!). But sometimes a trove of nasty, worn classical vinyl turns up. Nasty, but sometimes very interesting stuff as in great conductors and amazing orchestras from decades long past. For that, I have bought a cheap Nagaoka with a conical stylus in order to preserve my SAS stylus on the V15. (Sometimes the raw music is more important than perfect fidelity.))
Good MC is better than good MM. And you are right that you need to spend $600-1000 for reasonably good MC cart. Honestly, I would rather do with digital playback for classical music, than compromise on quality of cartridge. There are many fine classical records available on SACD, which tops best vinyl releases.

As for old vinyl - I suggest get Denon 103 for it. Not very expensive, and generally a good match for 1950-60s records.
 
I'm not sure what you're saying you have on the V15/IV. Is it an HE or is it an SAS? These are two different styli. The HE is equivalent to the original VN45HE and the SAS is more or less equivalent to the VN45MR.

Also, what turntable do you plan to use for classical? That might have a bearing on the ideal cartridge.

I have a V15/IV with an original VN45HE and I do like it for classical but my favorite is the Acutex M312III STR. It is a Japan Piezo-designed (also known as Nippon Atsudenki or, more simply, Azden) and manufactured induced magnet tri-pole cartridge. The "STR" refers to the stylus profile, a line contact stylus patented by Toshiba and manufactured for Acutex by Ogura. The instrument separation and soundstage of these tri-poles is quite remarkable.

These cartridges have been out of production for some time but there has been a supply of them available in Italy for some time. They may have just run out though. The eBay listing for them has disappeared though several other Acutex models are still listed. On the other hand, The company's own web site shows that they still have stock. :dunno:

John
 
As long as the records are well cared for the Grace F9E / Soundsmith Ruby OCL combo on my main table is outstanding for classical music. The Ortofon MC3 Turbo (HOMC) on my bedroom system is also very good and under $400 US.
 
>>>SNIP>>>Honestly, I would rather do with digital playback for classical music, than compromise on quality of cartridge. There are many fine classical records available on SACD, which tops best vinyl releases.

As for old vinyl - I suggest get Denon 103 for it. Not very expensive, and generally a good match for 1950-60s records.
Thanks ... and yes I did consider the idea of sticking to digital for classical music, especially for full symphony orchestra.

Maybe MM is OK for chamber music and some Baroque period stuff. What do you think?

I did have surprise the other day. The equivalent of $3.00 bought a clean Japanese pressing: Vanguard label (1975), Haydn, Vienna State Opera Orch. There is a lot of solo clarinet on the record — brilliantly played. The V15 gave an astonishing performance — you could hear the reeds in the clarinet. The orchestral parts would become disappointingly more muddled and I found myself turning down the volume. Still, for three bucks it is a prize.

Just a wild guess: a cheaper MC might not have held the same passion for the solo bits as the V15.

(BTW: I don't know if my old Yamaha CDX 1020 will read SACD — I've not made it past Redbook yet. I use an outboard NOS DAC)
 
Thanks ... and yes I did consider the idea of sticking to digital for classical music, especially for full symphony orchestra.

Maybe MM is OK for chamber music and some Baroque period stuff. What do you think?

I did have surprise the other day. The equivalent of $3.00 bought a clean Japanese pressing: Vanguard label (1975), Haydn, Vienna State Opera Orch. There is a lot of solo clarinet on the record — brilliantly played. The V15 gave an astonishing performance — you could hear the reeds in the clarinet. The orchestral parts would become disappointingly more muddled and I found myself turning down the volume. Still, for three bucks it is a prize.

Just a wild guess: a cheaper MC might not have held the same passion for the solo bits as the V15.

(BTW: I don't know if my old Yamaha CDX 1020 will read SACD — I've not made it past Redbook yet. I use an outboard NOS DAC)
Solo or any small scale performance like chamber music will be OK. But do not expect ANY MC cartridge to outperform your Shure. If you seriously decide on SACD, get proper player like Sony 5400, or Oppo 95 or 105. You can get lesser grade player, but use it as transport only for SACD if you have AV processor that supports pure DSD playback via HDMI.
 
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I'm not sure what you're saying you have on the V15/IV. Is it an HE or is it an SAS? These are two different styli. The HE is equivalent to the original VN45HE and the SAS is more or less equivalent to the VN45MR.

Also, what turntable do you plan to use for classical? That might have a bearing on the ideal cartridge.

I have a V15/IV with an original VN45HE and I do like it for classical but my favorite is the Acutex M312III STR. It is a Japan Piezo-designed (also known as Nippon Atsudenki or, more simply, Azden) and manufactured induced magnet tri-pole cartridge. The "STR" refers to the stylus profile, a line contact stylus patented by Toshiba and manufactured for Acutex by Ogura. The instrument separation and soundstage of these tri-poles is quite remarkable.

These cartridges have been out of production for some time but there has been a supply of them available in Italy for some time. They may have just run out though. The eBay listing for them has disappeared though several other Acutex models are still listed. On the other hand, The company's own web site shows that they still have stock. :dunno:

John
My stylus is an SAS. I have been using a Micro Seiki DQ-5 with a stock Rega RB300 arm. I just took this off my line up. I am setting up a Micro Seiki DD8 with an MA 505 Mk II arm. I have just ordered a Jico eliptical stylus for the Micro VF3200e that came with it. Jico will no longer supply an SAS stylus for that cartridge. (There is also a M97x and a Linn K-9 that may work on a AT95 stylus)

I did read a thread of yours regarding the Acutex and some suspension problems. I'll look out for an Acutex; your description of their features is fascinating.
 
I listen to symphony and opera. Ocassionally piano like Chopin or Lizst. Use Ortofon 2m Bronze or Shure M97xe with Jico SAS stylus. Love the bronze. Shure still breaking in
 
I listen to symphony and opera. Ocassionally piano like Chopin or Lizst. Use Ortofon 2m Bronze or Shure M97xe with Jico SAS stylus. Love the bronze. Shure still breaking in
I've been thinking about the SAS for my M97xe myself. Some say there is not much difference from stock. Others say it is transformational. But I guess there is often two poles to every discussion.
 
I did read a thread of yours regarding the Acutex and some suspension problems. I'll look out for an Acutex; your description of their features is fascinating.

I think you may be merging the lengthy Acutex thread with the more recent thread concerning resurrecting the suspension on an ADC stylus. I've never had a suspension problem with an Acutex, nor do I recall hearing of one.

By the way, I've written to the Italian seller of the Acutex cartridges for clarification regarding availability on the M312III STR. I'll post to the Piezo/Azden/Acutex thread when I hear something.

John
 
outta topic but how did you implant the rega arm on your table?
I was trying to remember exactly myself in case I had to dismount the MA 505 from the DD8 and install it on the DQ-5. In short, it was no slam-dunk process. I did some reading, made some drawings, fretted out a wooden arm board, modified some washers to go with the Rega spacers, scribed a protractor on a discarded record — other stuff I cannot remember but probably involving some instructions from Rega. I did some cosmetics so it looks not not so ugly as much as DIY.

Also, I stuffed the power supply board with new parts, cased it and moved it off-plinth. The suspension was shot so I replaced the feet with Sorbathane pucks. I bought the DQ from a junk shop, but it worked out.
 
I think you may be merging the lengthy Acutex thread with the more recent thread concerning resurrecting the suspension on an ADC stylus. I've never had a suspension problem with an Acutex, nor do I recall hearing of one.

By the way, I've written to the Italian seller of the Acutex cartridges for clarification regarding availability on the M312III STR. I'll post to the Piezo/Azden/Acutex thread when I hear something.

John
You are right. I'm confused ... lack of sleep. And thanks for the heads-up and your correspondance. I'll subscribe to the thread.
 
I was trying to remember exactly myself in case I had to dismount the MA 505 from the DD8 and install it on the DQ-5. In short, it was no slam-dunk process. I did some reading, made some drawings, fretted out a wooden arm board, modified some washers to go with the Rega spacers, scribed a protractor on a discarded record — other stuff I cannot remember but probably involving some instructions from Rega. I did some cosmetics so it looks not not so ugly as much as DIY.

Also, I stuffed the power supply board with new parts, cased it and moved it off-plinth. The suspension was shot so I replaced the feet with Sorbathane pucks. I bought the DQ from a junk shop, but it worked out.

Thanks. Damn that sounds like a lot of trouble.

I'm interested in implanting a Rega arm on a Luxman QDD table.
 
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