Sharpstik
Stuck in the 70's
Well, Rob, perhaps by that insinuation you have labeled yourself also?
No hard feelings. It's not my thread. Just what I prefer in radio.
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AM/FM Radio to Disappear from New Cars
- Thread starter amptramp
- Start date
Well, Rob, perhaps by that insinuation you have labeled yourself also?
No hard feelings. It's not my thread. Just what I prefer in radio.
Old_Tech
Yer-isn't!
Naptown Rob
Ponographer
Sheesh. Notice the :scratch2:?
Next,the official retraction, which will hopefully bring some final clarification to this whole issue.
Naptown Rob
Ponographer
The retraction:
Dear Readers:
My Editorial about AM/FM removal from cars has caused great concern in the radio industry. My mistake is that I put something in quotes from my recollections of the panel and the discussions afterward and my quote was inaccurate. Furthermore, my mistake was that I did not verify what was said by contacting the car companies directly for confirmation before running the story. As I received concerns from within the industry I looked at the video and learned my quote was inaccurate. My editorial stated two inaccuracies: I quoted, "AM and FM are being eliminated from the dash of two car companies within two years and will be eliminated from the dash of all cars within five years." The fact is, my recollection was incorrect and this was not said on stage as I reported.
So that I can abide by my history of journalistic integrity, here is exact and explicit documentation of what was said, where I thought I heard that quote, which I pulled from the video of the session.
Specifically, Thilo Koslowski, Gartner Research's VP and Practice Leader, Automotive, Car, ICT, Mobility stated:
"The changes we are talking about, they will actually really happen over the next couple of years. They are beginning to now, kind of bloom in certain areas where you have technology readily available like the Bay Area, but eventually you will see this everywhere. The challenge that I see is radio listening in the car consuming content is not going away but the way you do this and the platform that you use, platform meaning the technology that I use in order to get to that content will be very different."
Rhoads: "So what I want to know is if I own a radio station, and I'm not trying to put you guys on the spot, I really love what you're saying…"
Kowslowski: "Please do, please do."
Rhoads: "But if I own a radio station and I've got a lot of money invested in transmitters, or HD Radio or otherwise, and everything's gonna go to IP and you'rre gonna pull that AM and FM receiver to save twelve cents out of each car, I want to know it. Do you think that's likely to happen?"
Koslowski: "Absolutely. I think you will see that happening."
Rhoads: "When will that happen?"
Koslowski: "That will not happen over the next five to ten years, but past that absolutely."
Rhoads turns to audience: "Five to ten years, gang."
Koslowski: "No, but you will see already some changes happening over the next couple of years. Before it goes away completely that will take a little bit longer but think about it, how many cars can you buy today that have a cassette player? How many cars will you buy going forward that have a CD player? Not that many anymore. There are companies that actually are designing radios that don't have AM."
Rhoads: "Who are they?"
Koslowski: Shakes head.
Rhoads: "No no, who are they? You can’t bring it up without telling us who they are."
Koslowski: Shakes head.
Rhoads: "You can’t say it, it's confidential?"
Though I honestly believed I was accurately reporting what was said, the video reflects that I did indeed misquote what was said and that I clearly thought Mr. Koslowski has stated that the changes would occur within five to ten years when he actually said that it would not happen within that time from but sometime thereafter. His statement about changes happening over the next couple of years was also not as clear as I believed it to be.
My quote referencing two companies in two years was not an exact quote, and my reference to five years was inaccurate. What I wrote was based on my recollection of the session and conversations after the session. In hindsight, I should have waited until I could view the video and put the exact quotes and also should have not just assumed Mr. Koslowski was representing the automotive companies, which is why I should have contacted them.
Furthermore I made this statement based on my recollections from the panel and the behind the scenes discussion: "according to the Convergence panel, radio will be gone from new cars within five years." It was my opinion and was inaccurate.
My editorial has caused many within the radio industry much grief and therefore, I feel it best to rescind my original quote and issue an official apology. I care deeply about this industry. I've been a radio advocate for over four decades and I have always had radio's best interest at heart. My intent in the editorial was to give the industry a heads up about possible looming threats. I was deeply concerned because of my passion and concern for an industry and improperly measured the impact it would have. I truly regret any confusion or misinformation that resulted, and I sincerely apologize for the error.
There is good news in all of this, which is support from one major carmaker. GM issued a statement that they intend to keep AM/FM in their cars. See statement. Furthermore, Ford spoke to Editor Ed Ryan stating their support for radio. Both are a silver lining to this cloud.
Again, I apologize if I created problems or issues for anyone in this industry, which I dearly love.
Sincerely,
Eric Rhoads
Please DO NOT reply to this e-mail; replies do not go to Eric Rhoads. Please respond in comments at the Ink Tank blog: http://ericrhoads.blogs.com/ink_tank/.
Dear Readers:
My Editorial about AM/FM removal from cars has caused great concern in the radio industry. My mistake is that I put something in quotes from my recollections of the panel and the discussions afterward and my quote was inaccurate. Furthermore, my mistake was that I did not verify what was said by contacting the car companies directly for confirmation before running the story. As I received concerns from within the industry I looked at the video and learned my quote was inaccurate. My editorial stated two inaccuracies: I quoted, "AM and FM are being eliminated from the dash of two car companies within two years and will be eliminated from the dash of all cars within five years." The fact is, my recollection was incorrect and this was not said on stage as I reported.
So that I can abide by my history of journalistic integrity, here is exact and explicit documentation of what was said, where I thought I heard that quote, which I pulled from the video of the session.
Specifically, Thilo Koslowski, Gartner Research's VP and Practice Leader, Automotive, Car, ICT, Mobility stated:
"The changes we are talking about, they will actually really happen over the next couple of years. They are beginning to now, kind of bloom in certain areas where you have technology readily available like the Bay Area, but eventually you will see this everywhere. The challenge that I see is radio listening in the car consuming content is not going away but the way you do this and the platform that you use, platform meaning the technology that I use in order to get to that content will be very different."
Rhoads: "So what I want to know is if I own a radio station, and I'm not trying to put you guys on the spot, I really love what you're saying…"
Kowslowski: "Please do, please do."
Rhoads: "But if I own a radio station and I've got a lot of money invested in transmitters, or HD Radio or otherwise, and everything's gonna go to IP and you'rre gonna pull that AM and FM receiver to save twelve cents out of each car, I want to know it. Do you think that's likely to happen?"
Koslowski: "Absolutely. I think you will see that happening."
Rhoads: "When will that happen?"
Koslowski: "That will not happen over the next five to ten years, but past that absolutely."
Rhoads turns to audience: "Five to ten years, gang."
Koslowski: "No, but you will see already some changes happening over the next couple of years. Before it goes away completely that will take a little bit longer but think about it, how many cars can you buy today that have a cassette player? How many cars will you buy going forward that have a CD player? Not that many anymore. There are companies that actually are designing radios that don't have AM."
Rhoads: "Who are they?"
Koslowski: Shakes head.
Rhoads: "No no, who are they? You can’t bring it up without telling us who they are."
Koslowski: Shakes head.
Rhoads: "You can’t say it, it's confidential?"
Though I honestly believed I was accurately reporting what was said, the video reflects that I did indeed misquote what was said and that I clearly thought Mr. Koslowski has stated that the changes would occur within five to ten years when he actually said that it would not happen within that time from but sometime thereafter. His statement about changes happening over the next couple of years was also not as clear as I believed it to be.
My quote referencing two companies in two years was not an exact quote, and my reference to five years was inaccurate. What I wrote was based on my recollection of the session and conversations after the session. In hindsight, I should have waited until I could view the video and put the exact quotes and also should have not just assumed Mr. Koslowski was representing the automotive companies, which is why I should have contacted them.
Furthermore I made this statement based on my recollections from the panel and the behind the scenes discussion: "according to the Convergence panel, radio will be gone from new cars within five years." It was my opinion and was inaccurate.
My editorial has caused many within the radio industry much grief and therefore, I feel it best to rescind my original quote and issue an official apology. I care deeply about this industry. I've been a radio advocate for over four decades and I have always had radio's best interest at heart. My intent in the editorial was to give the industry a heads up about possible looming threats. I was deeply concerned because of my passion and concern for an industry and improperly measured the impact it would have. I truly regret any confusion or misinformation that resulted, and I sincerely apologize for the error.
There is good news in all of this, which is support from one major carmaker. GM issued a statement that they intend to keep AM/FM in their cars. See statement. Furthermore, Ford spoke to Editor Ed Ryan stating their support for radio. Both are a silver lining to this cloud.
Again, I apologize if I created problems or issues for anyone in this industry, which I dearly love.
Sincerely,
Eric Rhoads
Please DO NOT reply to this e-mail; replies do not go to Eric Rhoads. Please respond in comments at the Ink Tank blog: http://ericrhoads.blogs.com/ink_tank/.
Sharpstik
Stuck in the 70's
Sheesh. Notice the :scratch2:?
:thmbsp:
The Frankenstein in the room for commercial radio is an Apple radio option down the road. They've already annihilated the point and shoot camera industry.
The comment section in the retraction is an eye opener.
If it makes you feel any better, those of us who get interference from HD radio are worrying that more cars will have FM with HD radio, leading to more HD broadcasts, leading to more noise, leading to more HD radio in a vicious circle. Who would have thought they could eliminate analog TV - talk about a big installed user base! Probably your doomsday scenario (no car radios) will beat out mine (HD everywhere).
What is the problem with digital radio? If they eliminate analog FM, it will free up spectrum for at least five times more radio stations.
Old_Tech
Yer-isn't!
electroking
a- v- karma member
Who needs five times more radio stations when (according to the general
opinion) most of what currently exists is crap? And if a digital transition
improves reliability the way it did for TV, what fool would want to
go that way?
Why don't you like digital TV? Last time I plugged antenna to my TV, I got a dozen or so channels. Picture quality is better than cable or satellite. From capacity perspective there are now two HD channels in place of one SD analog. Of cause like everything digital it either works with perfect picture, or do not show anything at all. There is no such thing as noisy picture from weak signal in digital world.
I'm late to the thread, but my .02 is that it's highly unlikely radio will make the same sort of digital shift television did. Remember, a major part of what drove tv's digital move was the amount of bandwidth it freed. With radio, there simply isn't enough bandwidth to recapture to make it worth the government's time. I think it's far more likely that radio will choke on its own bad decisions long before anyone takes away the airwaves.
s.
electroking
a- v- karma member
I like digital TV. The image is crystal clear, there are no ghosts, etc. But whenever
I open my fridge door, I lose audio for a half-second or so. And although I am
not personally affected, many Canadian residents that were served by auxiliary
transmitters now have to pay to get TV. And I don't think you can receive an
ATSC TV signal while in motion, which would be a major setback for radio in cars...
I open my fridge door, I lose audio for a half-second or so. And although I am
not personally affected, many Canadian residents that were served by auxiliary
transmitters now have to pay to get TV. And I don't think you can receive an
ATSC TV signal while in motion, which would be a major setback for radio in cars...
amptramp
Well-Known Member
There was another thread started about a similar topic, but I will add what I said there:
Although the audioasylum statement was retracted, the message remains: the market is getting fragmented to the extent that unless you are a national advertiser with the money to put into network advertising across the nation, your choices are rather murky. The radio medium is getting so balkanized that a local advertiser should never pay much more than lunch money for an ad on a radio station.
When there were few stations, an ad was worth a lot. With more stations, the collapse of the market for individual stations and the reduction in value to the advertiser may torpedo radio before the poor programming does. Market research into what people are listening to is inaccurate - how grossly inaccurate is a matter of conjecture, but I change presets often on the car radio and I don't keep a log of how long I listen to any particular station and neither does anyone else.
Although the audioasylum statement was retracted, the message remains: the market is getting fragmented to the extent that unless you are a national advertiser with the money to put into network advertising across the nation, your choices are rather murky. The radio medium is getting so balkanized that a local advertiser should never pay much more than lunch money for an ad on a radio station.
When there were few stations, an ad was worth a lot. With more stations, the collapse of the market for individual stations and the reduction in value to the advertiser may torpedo radio before the poor programming does. Market research into what people are listening to is inaccurate - how grossly inaccurate is a matter of conjecture, but I change presets often on the car radio and I don't keep a log of how long I listen to any particular station and neither does anyone else.
FM ain't crap in Southern Ontario, at least, I seem lucky that I get tons of great stations.
I am one fool who wants to leave terrestrial FM the way it is.
As an example, I used to receive WNED, Buffalo PBS, when they broadcast in NTSC. When they switched to ATSC, I could not get them anymore, same TV. The ones in Toronto were okay, when Canada switched to ATSC, the US stuff = all gone!!
My thinking is if they switch to digital FM, it maybe the same thing and I will lose 'DX' stations, ones that I regard as mono, sig <20dBuV, basically at the RDBS threshold region on my Si4735 tuner. My best station is 75 miles away, CIXL!! I actually do not mind the little bit of fading in and out occasionally, it kinda acts a weather report.
Now, after saying that, using DSP tech to a tuner, such as Si4735/Si4770, with some good software/controls, now we are talking about a fine and very economical terrestrial tuner.
Cheers
Rick
Long distance reception is not needed anymore - you can replace it with Internet streams, which most stations have now. FM was always used for mobile receivers (like in cars). And there you will unlikely pick station from 75 miles away. People can carry 50 GB of music with them now, so they do not need radio stations, unless there is live content there like news or talk in the studio.
I have a 160GB iPod, and still listen to the radio much of the time.
Hi jbl guy
With software
BASCOM-AVR compiler actually
I took the original Elektor article and ran with it, designed a poratble media player/tuner pcb, switched to a Amtel xmega mpu, it works really well in FM. I have had the core running for a while, still need to write code for tons of features, I want to implement, which are the bases to any radio, regardless of RF device. udementary RDBS, PI code decoding, Radio text display. Got the NEC IR remote interupt code going recently, slow go though, but has been fun too.
A nice fellow in the BASCOM_AVR forum offered a re-write of the original code with all kinds of RDS decoding, which is much more advanced that what gets implemented by US/Canadian broadcasters
I also want to get out a Si4770 design too, just side tracked these days with my Mom moving in, just need motivation. A design partner can be motivational
Cheers
Rick
With software
BASCOM-AVR compiler actuallyI took the original Elektor article and ran with it, designed a poratble media player/tuner pcb, switched to a Amtel xmega mpu, it works really well in FM. I have had the core running for a while, still need to write code for tons of features, I want to implement, which are the bases to any radio, regardless of RF device. udementary RDBS, PI code decoding, Radio text display. Got the NEC IR remote interupt code going recently, slow go though, but has been fun too.
A nice fellow in the BASCOM_AVR forum offered a re-write of the original code with all kinds of RDS decoding, which is much more advanced that what gets implemented by US/Canadian broadcasters
I also want to get out a Si4770 design too, just side tracked these days with my Mom moving in, just need motivation. A design partner can be motivational
I feel the same even though I don't own a iPod, but I have a USB jump drive reader, same issue, loading songs, selecting songs to play, let someone else do it for me, just so much easier, I have about 10 good FM stations programmed in to go through
Cheers
Rick
Bubo
Super Member
Free FM vs a billed music service is a tough sell in any market.
One radio transmitter covers a huge area and may broadcast more than one signal.
On the other hand, launching satellites or putting up cell towers everywhere is a far more expensive deployment model.
Update:
I spent some time on amazon looking at car radios, the totl Pioneer (and probably others) is $106 and supports HD FM, FM and AM, CD player, plus bluetooth to I-phones etc...... Last time my teenager got an I-phone I think they were around $300-400 plus the monthly fee and the low res mpeg files.
$100 and unlimited free music vs....
$400 and a fee based subscription service
One radio transmitter covers a huge area and may broadcast more than one signal.
On the other hand, launching satellites or putting up cell towers everywhere is a far more expensive deployment model.
Update:
I spent some time on amazon looking at car radios, the totl Pioneer (and probably others) is $106 and supports HD FM, FM and AM, CD player, plus bluetooth to I-phones etc...... Last time my teenager got an I-phone I think they were around $300-400 plus the monthly fee and the low res mpeg files.
$100 and unlimited free music vs....
$400 and a fee based subscription service
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