tuner advice: vintage analog or modern digital?

bolero

Super Member
...or vintage digital? :D

Hello,

I have a Sansui AU-7700 amp that I love; I would like to find a tuner that matches it

au7700_1.jpg


the TU-7700 would match it, but I am wondering: for the same $$ as a collectable old Sansui, would it be better ( tuner functionality/noise/reception ) to get a more modern digital tuner instead?

a slim black unit would look slick on top of the AU-7700

currently I am using a Rotel RT-726, it works ok but it's silver :thumbsdn: :smoke: doesn't match visibly. shallow, I know!

ROTEL%20RT-726%202.jpg


also any opinions on the Rotel? I am new to tuners

thanks!!

:thmbsp:
 
There are only a couple of good tuners you can buy new, the rest use a 3 gang tuner pack and are crap. If you want an excellent digital tuner you can buy a used Onkyo Integra T-4087 or T-9090 for a reasonable price. Your options on a new one are Magnum Dynalabs ot Macintosh, both a lot more money than a Sansui TU-9900!
 
@R-2-r do you mean the T-35 Sanyo???? the t-55 is about 2 inches high the 35 is a lot closer in size to the sansui
 
Well -- I have next to no real wisdom about FM tuners, but I have one rather strongly held opinion.

There are two different paramaters that don't necessarily travel together in any given tuner -- I (somewhat inaccurately) call them "RF performance" and "AF performance". By the former, I mean how well the tuner works as a radio: how sensitive it is (which really means what does the "quieting curve" look like as a function of input signal level), what is its selectivity, capture ratio, oscillator drift, overload tolerance, etc.
By the latter, of course, it's all of the usual "hifi" parameters -- flatness (and extension) of audio frequency response, harmonic distortion, phase linearity, signal to noise ratio, and whatever those ineffable parameters that make audio "sound good".

These two areas of performance, of course, are intertwined... but some of the early analog tuners get the AF oh-so-right even if, as radios, their performance may be mediocre at best. Some of the vaunted solid state analog, and many of the digital (frequency synthesis, that is) tuners just don't - to me - sound very good. Folks tend to blame the radio stations, but it's not just that (there are still good sounding stations in most markets!). I think that in the late 1960s (give or take a few years) the emphasis shifted from audio quality to (readily quantifiable) "radio" quality in the whole consumer tuner/receiver industry.

FWIW, as long as I can receive the signal of an FM radio station I want to listen to with "full quieting" (even if only in mono), I care much more about AF than RF performance per se. As a sweeping generalization* (based on empirical though anecdotal experience), the analog tuner designs historically have done a better job getting the AF right, even if they aren't all that "hot" as radios (so to speak).

Again, FWIW, dollar for dollar, my long-term favorites for sound quality per dollar on the used (vintage) market are the Sherwood tuners of the late 1950s into the early/mid 1960s. I've yet to spend more than $50 for one, and I've also yet to buy one that didn't work well, and sound very, very good, as found. Are they the best? Heck no, but they typically cost at least an order of magnitude less than the best and give tremendous satisfaction if you don't need ultimate-quality "radio" performance but desire very good sonics.

DSC_8058 by mhardy6647, on Flickr
(these two are mono, but will accept an outboard MPX decoder if one must have stereo)

Obviously just my opinions, YMMV and all that.

Now, can someone help me get down off this soapbox? ;-)

EDIT: oh, and to actually respond to the question(!) :) From my perspective, go analog if you care more about sound than "radio metrics"; go digital if you need the radio oompf (e.g., you live on the fringe and need sensitivity or in the midst of the city and need selectivity). Try before you buy at your location, if at all possible.
Why not just keep lookin' 'til you find a TU-7700 and be done with it!

* and all generalizations are false, including this one!
 
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A Yamaha T-85 is black and would look fairly good with that. Performs well too.
 
If you want modern but to remain analogue the Magnum Dynalab is an excellent choice. I picked up a used Etude recently and not only is the sound quality magnificent, but sensitivity etc. are very fine as well. Used they don't go for huge money and if your pockets get deeper you can upgrade them to the most recent standard should you feel a desire to do so. I have a number of classic tuner from Scott tube on through and a Revox digital and while they all sound excellent the Dynalab has a special musicality to my ears. Sound stage is superb. To me they look pretty cool as well with the three honking big meters and the digital readout.
 
Circa 1990 JVC had some really fine PLL tuners in the Super Digifine series. The FX 1010TN is a top example. I have a different model of this series and they are better tuners then most anything I have used since, certainly better the the largely unused tuner on my two Year old Onkyo AVR. The Super Digifine series is sadly overlooked so the prices are very affordable. There is an example of this tuner on eBay for $99 dollars.


FX-1100.jpg
 
One of the great things about these JVC tuners is they use HP optical couplers to isolate the stages from each other which makes for an extremely low noise floor.
 
@R-2-r do you mean the T-35 Sanyo???? the t-55 is about 2 inches high the 35 is a lot closer in size to the sansui

No, the Sanyo T55 is exactly the one I suggested. (Did you read about the T55? I'm impressed with it!)

One must remember that anytime you read something with 'Dimensions' (HxWxD) H of course Height, W for Width and D for Depth, those are standard letters for basic standard sizes (unless other differences are referred too).

I never mentioned (H) heigth in my post, I made referrences to the (W) width and to the (D) depth only. Yes you are correct that the (H) heigth is probably about 2" but in the OP, he described the height as "Slim" and so that is what I had in mind and suggested the T55.
 
The Denon TU-800 is very good. Apparently similar sonics to the JVC tuner mentioned earlier but with better reception.

Regards,
Nick
 
.....
There are two different paramaters that don't necessarily travel together in any given tuner -- I (somewhat inaccurately) call them "RF performance" and "AF performance". By the former, I mean how well the tuner works as a radio: how sensitive it is (which really means what does the "quieting curve" look like as a function of input signal level), what is its selectivity, capture ratio, oscillator drift, overload tolerance, etc.
By the latter, of course, it's all of the usual "hifi" parameters -- flatness (and extension) of audio frequency response, harmonic distortion, phase linearity, signal to noise ratio, and whatever those ineffable parameters that make audio "sound good".
.....

I heard once that the extremely highly rated McIntosh MR78 tuner was excellent at RF performance but some of their "lesser" tuners were better at audio.

That said, I recently restored a Fisher 600-T receiver which has an analog tuner. One of the things I like about analog tuners is that you do not have to wait for it to tune in when going from one frequency to the next. It's always "on". Also, there is the ability to tune slightly off frequency to try to bring in adjacent channel stations. In suburban Chicago (40 miles out) I can log 60 stations including maybe 6 adjacent channel stations with a double folded dipole in the attic.

I also have a Heathkit AR-15 receiver which has a much better tuner "by the numbers" but in a side by side comparison, it will not pick up any more stations. Overall performance is about equal to the Fisher.

I also have a Harman Kardon Citation 23 which is a high performance digital tuner. This will bring in an additional 6 adjacent channel stations because it has a "Hi Q" mode that provides additional selectivity and it is tunable. However, one would probably never listen to any of those extra stations long term.

As far as audio performance being compromised for better RF performance, of the 60 stations, there are only 3 with sound quality and/or programming that would warrant anything above a cheap table radio, so the entire issue may be moot.

Sherwood did make a good tuner back in the day. One engineer at Collins Radio told me that Scott was a "hotter" tuner than Fisher but didn't say anything about Sherwood.
 
I had an AU-7700 and matching TU-7700 within the past year; the tuner was really nice. I could've lived with it for a long time to come, but didn't bond with the amp, and couldn't bring myself to separate the two museum-quality siblings so I sold them as a pair. :tears:

I replaced the Sansui tuner with a Harman-Kardon Citation 15. In a side-by-side comparison, I heard very little sonic difference between the two in the context of my system.

All of which is to say, if it were me I'd try and find the matching tuner for your amp. A 'wanted" thread in Barter Town might find you one...
 
I favor analog tuners over most digitals. Less self noise and usually more sensitive and AM sections which are usable too. Why not a Sansui tuner to match your beautiful integrated amplfier. Kenwood, Pioneer, and several other options would serve you nicely.
 
I favor analog tuners over most digitals. Less self noise and usually more sensitive and AM sections which are usable too. Why not a Sansui tuner to match your beautiful integrated amplfier. Kenwood, Pioneer, and several other options would serve you nicely.

This is good advice. The TU-7700 is the matching tuner.

tu-7700.JPG
 
Hi guys,

I guess I have to thrown my 2cents worth of advise.
All this advise is in the assumption that the tuner works for ever or at least till you get your monies worth. If they fail, then the fun begins. Most of these tuners, suggested by others, are 30 years old. With that, goes wear out and old technology.
I was talking to a guy in this forum who was working on a Crown FM-1, (a top-end tuner for the day) the GI controller went, non-repairable, part unobtainium. Best advise, if old tech = hope and prey &/or have a spares units or use a Silicon labs Si4735 or Si4770(single chip tuner based radio)!!
 
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