Pioneer SX-980 No Relay Click

gpdavis

New Member
Hey audiokarma,

Seems like this is a fairly common problem, but I'd appreciate some guidance on how to go about fixing this so I don't damage this unit any further.

I picked up a Pioneer SX-980 on ebay a couple of weeks ago, and it's in incredible condition. And while it was working, I was absolutely blown away by how much better my setup sounds with adequate power. The guy found it at a garage sale and said it looked like it had sit in a room untouched for 25 years. He went through and cleaned it all up and deoxed everything. When I received it, I was actually blown away by how great of a condition it's in. Good stuff.

Problem is that not too long after I got it, I go to turn it on, and nothing. I noticed there was no usual click, so I got to researching how these things work and discovered the protection circuit and what it's functionality is, and what might be wrong with it. If I understand correctly, either the protection circuit is doing its job and protecting the speakers from some erroneously high voltages, or the protection circuit itself is malfunctioning and erring on the side of caution by ensuring that the speakers get no output.

I'm fairly confident that the latter is the case, because the day after discovering this problem, I plugged it in again and gave it a go. Sure enough, it clicked, and with FM input selected, the power meters came to life. Nothing out of the ordinary; volume was down fairly low and they jumped up the appropriate amount. But a few seconds later, it clicks again and they fall silent. Bummer! I haven't gotten it to click again since then.

I exchanged a couple emails with the guy who sold it to me, and he pointed me towards the fuses on the power supply board. I checked all of them and they appear to be in working order. He was very sympathetic and was pretty helpful in pointing me in the right direction, but I don't exactly want to burden him with guiding me through the repair of a unit he's already sold, of course.

In any case, I purchased myself a digital multimeter, and I have a soldering iron available to use, so I'd really like to get this fixed myself. I could take it in to a repair shop, but I figure that if I'm going to own old equipment, I better learn to take care of these kinds of issues because they're bound to happen again.

I read through some threads about this issue, and I checked pins 3 and 8 on the protection circuit, and they both read somewhere in the 100-150mv range. What I understand is that this indicates that the protection circuit is falsely engaged (correct me if I'm wrong). This reinforces my inclination that the protection circuit is the issue.

It seems there are some folks on here who are happy to help, so I'd much appreciate some guidance on how to go about diagnosing this problem. I have some experience soldering and working with computer assembly, but I haven't done much in the way of working with audio equipment. But like I said, I'm eager to learn how to care for this unit.

Cheers!
-Greg
 
just in case: download the service manual.

The q2 driver transistor could be on it's last legs, it is at the edge of the AWM-124 board with the pa3004 protection chip and the relay.

Sx-980 pins 5 (pin 3? that's ground!!) and 8 are the audio inputs , 100 - 150mv is a bit high, try to dial them down...

THEN try it, and if it still does it:
Read the voltages on the relay driver transistor Q2 2sc1438 when the relay is SUPPOSED to be pulled in. base of 0.7v, emitter of 0 volts and collector of some high voltage ( over +60v) means the transistor packed it in.

Recommended replacement is: (a lasts "forever" pick)
512-KSC2690AYS to-126 ecb 120/a160 1.2a 1.2w/20w 175mhz 35-320hfe $0.40
 
Well, I just went ahead and remeasured pins 5 and 8, and ended up reading ~25V each. That sounds problematic...

I wonder why it was lower before. Maybe I wasn't waiting long enough *shrug*. In any case, that's the reading I just got, so it does sound like a power supply issue.
 
So I dug up an old thread you were helping out in, and took some measurements on the power supply board that might be helpful here (copied your post for the expected readings):

22 +50v dc?
50.6

23,24 +23v dc?
24.7

25,26 -23v dc?
.716

27 -50v dc?
-.281

15 +13v dc?
0

28 -13v dc?
-.93

20 +33v dc?
34.2

I also noticed something else odd. I could smell a faint burning smell, which was naturally a bit alarming. I shut it down and sniffed around. I noticed that the white component connecting pins 22 and 24 got very warm after being on for only ~30 seconds.

The component I'm referring to can be seen on the far left of this image (one of the two white components that have wrapping around them).
http://joedotcom.com/dropbox/SX-980/sx-980hot.jpg

I appreciate your help, and understand you're quite busy. I just wanted to follow-up with some more information that may help out.

Thanks!
 
between pins 22 and 24, that part will get hot, it's supposed to. But with the negative supplies misbehaving, there could be increased drain upon it.

you have lost the -50v regulator, check the ground referenced voltages on each side of R8 (6.8 ohms) as this is intended to pop if too much current is drawn.

Also check both sides of R9 (10 ohms).
 
You got it!

R8: -72v to -.3v
R9: 27v to 25v

Looks like R8 is no good. And it's getting quite a bit of voltage. Yikes.

While I have a chance, I'd like to ask a couple questions. These problems appear to be on the input end. Is there any chance of damage to unobtainable parts? I understand the output transistors are unobtainable. But the protection circuit's job is to protect these, among other things, correct?

It's obvious I'm going to have to get underneath the power supply assembly. What's your advice for doing so? I understand that those wire wraps shouldn't be taken apart unless absolutely necessary, but I'm having trouble finding a way to lift that board without removing them. There's just not enough slack on the wires connected to them.

Finally, a rather broad question, but how difficult of a repair does this appear to be? I know you don't have all the necessary information yet, but I know you have quite a bit of experience here and you might be able to answer this question in a vague way.

Thanks again for your help!
 
r8 is a 1/4w flameproof metal film or carbon film 6.8 ohm resistor.

You have my permission to bridge it with a 5 ohm resistor to test if the rest of the power supply is ok, or if it is damaged and needs more parts.

Radio Shack has 1/2w carbon film 10 ohm resistors you can get ($1.49 for pack of 5) to do the test. Put two in parallel for 5 ohms.
Use the store locator in the linked page to find stock nearby...
It'll save you 5 to 7 bucks in shipping.

The board is held down by 4 plastic posts in the corner IIAC...

Try unstringing the harnesses, or post pictures to show how the factory routed the wires.
 
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Hmm, okay. Does that -72v not indicate something else wrong?

How can I safely bridge this? I should get under the board to remove the old resistor, then can I insert one lead from each into each hole and solder them in together? Or is there a better way to go about doing this? I understand how to place components in parallel in a circuit, I just want to make sure I don't do anything stupid trying to set it up.
 
-72v is the supply voltage its not getting through the resistor as its suspected burned through .
piggy back one 10 ohm resistor to the other and solder the leads together then put the leads of the piggy backed one through the holes after removing the burnt one and solder in place .
like the big ones bottom pic .. take note values not same as yours . its just to show how to join together ..
5184d1240412301-nfb.gif
 
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Everything he said, but I meant for you to hook the dmm up to the regulated output, then tack solder from the top of the board the paired 10 ohm resistors onto the 6.8 ohm resistor, no bottom of board access need for this test.
a double piggyback. There is a small risk of the 6.8 ohm resistor joint opening up on the underside. VERY small. won't hurt anything if it does, same thing as it is now - with the burned out resistor.

then power it up and see if the regulated voltage appears

the -72 means something is RIGHT.
 
Alright, folks, I bridged it with two 10ohm resistors in parallel, and the voltage is now reading -72v on both sides. Still no relay click, though.

Makin' progress :thmbsp:

What's next?
 
Just left home for the weekend, unfortunately, so I'm gonna have to let that sit until Monday. Will report back then :thmbsp:
 
Thanks! I appreciate it. It was a good weekend indeed.

Alrighty, so I took those measurements again.

22
+50.6

23/24
+23.5

25/26
-6.6

27
-14.24

15
0

28
-13.6

20
+34.3
 
q4 might be the problem .or something is pulling the voltages down
you could checkq4 base voltage or maybe safer to check voltage both sides of r6 and both sides of r8 .this should tell us if q4 is doing what it is told to do .
 
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sorry i missed your reply and now its 1.15am ..will look first chance i have unless someone else can give you directions ,
 
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