Be a hero: troubleshoot my whole house audio

I moved into this house last year and was stoked to have it completely wired for audio throughout each room with individual volume controls, but have yet to get it optimized and am turning to the experts here to figure out what I'm dealing with.

The main distribution panel appears is an AF-12 by Sonance but is very confusing. I can't attach a picture but we basically have a distribution board with 2 sets of inputs (4 wires each) and 12 outputs (4 wires each) to which each room is connected (via 16 gauge twisted pair). The amplifier input is connected to my left and right front speaker outputs from my 1000w Pioneer amplifier. There are two transformers in the box that I have not tinkered with. It seems that I may be able to retap these to match impedance but I have no idea on where to start with that. Plus, I would expect the system would have been matched already with the speakers installed from the original installer.

The problem I'm running into is that the sound levels are very low and my receiver trips out on overtemp on a regular basis. It also heats up very quick, even when I turn down all rooms so that just one room is playing.

Can anyone direct me to a resource on how these systems are set up? Or give some guidance as to fixes here? I've thought about an additional external amp, but at a lower power output, I have to assume its not going to do much better.

Thank you for the help!
Drew

Welcome to the Forum. Someone with expertise will be along soon.

looks like you have maybe tapped into the wrong places or your amp is too big .
i wouldn't think the amp though if on low levels .
its more like the amp is seeing a very low ohms because of incorrect wiring or a short .
can you check the ohms across the wires you are using to amp speaker terminals ?
i found this on the net ...
Connects up to 12 pairs of 8 ohm speakers and is specifically designed for high end audio distribution. Screwless Quick Connectors make for an easy and rapid installation. Easily adjustable output taps can be manually set to the proper speaker system impedance load. Support spower levels from 50 to 200W RMS/channel to protect the amplifier or receiver from extremely low impedance loads
also found the manual here ....http://www.umlib.com/brand/Sonance/category/Other/model/AF12 Impedance Matching Systems

Thanks for the quick reply.

So the transformers have taps for 1 ohms, 2 ohms and 4 ohms, which correlate to 8-12 speakers, 4-7 speakers, 2-3 speakers; respectively. I am currently tapped in the 1 ohm position.

I tried to measure ohms off the inputs I'm sending to this board but get values that didn't make sense (meter pegged out max) so I must be measuring incorrectly. To measure with a simple multimeter, just grab + and - terminals and measure across? Would you recommend I mesaure across all sets of speaker outputs?

If I calculate the ohms by hand (8 ohm speakers; 16 total in parallel), I get 1 ohms total system value (check my math???), which is below that called out by the board (1 ohm). I'm not sure if this is the issue though because I have attempted to troubleshoot by turning volume controls to off to reduce resistance and load on the system.

1 ohm is surely not correct for your amp ..it may or may not be ok for 4 ohm load ..what model amp is it ?
1 ohm is almost dead short ..

I expect you should be using the 4 ohm tap.

Have you by chance had any of the speakers out to see what they look like? I wonder if what you're looking at here is a 4 ohm to 70 volt distribution transformer, and each speaker has a 70 volt matching transformer to make it all play together. That would make a lot more sense to be able to feed from a normal amplifier.

So I was incorrect in my amp's power. It is 450w. I have a Pioneer VSX822 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ephox/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/Home/VSX-822-K New Single Sheet.pdf).

The speakers are Sonance CR201 (100W, 8ohm).

Still think I should be tapped at 4ohm?

Basic trouble shooting.

Just some observations.

Make sure you amplifier works okay by its self, not connected to the distribution system.

Use the information in the manual to verify that the impedance taps on the Sonance are correct for the number of pairs of speakers connected to the Sonance.

Just because it is preinstalled does not mean that it is installed correctly.

Check for wiring errors or shorts.

You may have to trouble shoot each pair of remote speakers and the associated wiring independently.

Remember that the power output to each pair of speakers will be divided by the number of pairs of speakers in the system best case (there will be some loss due to the Sonance).

Are you using your own speakers in each room or are the speakers that you are using part of the original Sonance system?

Is your amplifier rated for a 4 Ohm load?

What is the model number of the Pioneer that you are trying to use?

These devices mostly work as advertised with in the constraints of being a passive device.

I do not believe that having an amplifier that is too big would cause this particular problem. The amount of power that will be supplied to this device by your amplifier is dependent on the position of the volume control and this device should work up to the point that your amplifier power causes damage to the device.

BTW, if the remote speaker volume controls are also Sonance devices, some of their controls are stepped transformer based and if you measure the resistance of individual wires that go to the remote locations, the transformers may show a low resistance that might lead you to believe that you have found a short.

That Pioneer, though it is multi-channel, is actually rated at 80 WPC into an 8 Ohm load.

450w is the power consumption .
the lowest rating i see is 6 ohms .......140 W/ch (6 ohms 1 kHz 1 % 1ch Driven)
it may or may not be ok to run it at 4 ohms load on low volume ..
looking at it the worst that should happen in theory is your amp will shut-down if it doesn't like it .. this wouldn't be the case with lots of vintage amps .it would have been smoke and tears already .

drewhadley said:

So I was incorrect in my amp's power. It is 450w. I have a Pioneer VSX822 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ephox/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/Home/VSX-822-K New Single Sheet.pdf).

The speakers are Sonance CR201 (100W, 8ohm).

Still think I should be tapped at 4ohm?

Click to expand...

As previously posted it is actually rated for 80 watts per channel. The 450 watt specification that you refer to is the estimated total power that it would draw from the AC power outlet, not the power available to drive speakers.

The correct tap to use on the Sonance depends on the number of pairs of speakers that are connected to the system. See the the picture in my previous post.



Again, how many different pairs of speakers are connected to the system?

YouR amp isn't 450 watts - that's it's power consumption, not its output.

It is, at best, 80 watts/channel. Definitely on the low end of the scale I would think, to power that many speakers.
Looking at the manual for the Sonance, I actually think the 1 ohm tap is correct - guys like us just automatically get jumpy when we see a figure like that.

I would call Sonance customer service & see what they have to say. There is a number on this page of the manuals.

http://www.manualslib.com/manual/319200/Sonance-Af12.html?page=2#manual

Looks to me like a rat got in there and built a nest... Good luck with that tangle..

JBL GUY - I have 16 speakers connected to the system. 6 pairs of speakers and 4 rooms with 1 individual speaker.

It seems the right ohm setting is 1, but if my amp is not rated for that, then it seems a new amp is the solution?

The impedance of the taps is the expected impedance of the total load on the speaker side of the device not the load presented to the amplifier.

Edit, just saw your post.

Looks like the 1 Ohm tap would be the one to use.

Remember that your 80 watts per channel is going to be divided by 10 for each speaker.

So 8 to 10 watts per speaker at the best and the reflected load impedance may be lower than you amplifier likes to see.

Also remember that they suggest that an amplifier of up to 350 watts program material, with would get you 30 watts or so to each speaker in round numbers.

See picture below.

All of this does not preclude there being an issue with the device its self or a wiring error or short somewhere.

Long distance diagnosis is difficult and not always accurate.

Okay, so then I have the taps on the transformer pegged correctly. Is that the same resistance presented to the amp? Does the fact that the amp is really only rated for 4 - 6 ohms create issue for the system?

Alright. Thanks all. I think I have some work to do here, but have a much better understanding. Will follow up in a few days if I get something going.

drewhadley said:

Okay, so then I have the taps on the transformer pegged correctly. Is that the same resistance presented to the amp? Does the fact that the amp is really only rated for 4 - 6 ohms create issue for the system?

Click to expand...

No it is not the same impedance that is presented to your amplifier. The Sonance device is designed to keep the impedance as seen by your amplifier at 4 Ohms or above in round numbers.

And to be clear if you decide to to do some trouble shooting by measuring resistance using a DMM and looking for any shorts, resistance and impedance are not the same thing.

UPDATE:

I changed out my receiver with a Denon DRA397 which I had in another system and the sound is coming through much stronger and no heat on the amplifer after an hour at good sound levels.

The Denon DRA397 lists impedance of 8 - 16 ohms when both A&B speakers are hooked up (as I currently have arranged), but is not posing any issues.

Thank you all for the information and help on this. Lesson learned on receivers.