Why Do People Pay more For JBL L100 / 4312 Speakers but then.......

What can I say? My cousin has a L100T (titanium tweeter) coupled to a Yamaha CA-1000 running in pure Class-A mode and we have enjoyed many long nights listening to hours and hours of music on them. I thought this combination sounded pretty good; lively, exciting (although i'm not totally fond of the titanium tweeter).

My only real beef with the L100s is the paper-cone tweeter. I don't think most really care about the tweeter in the grand scheme of things though. Once you see that beautiful white woofer cone in action, it's easy to fall in love :)

I think there were at least two versions of the paper-cone tweeter, the LE25 and the LE26, the latter measurably much better than the former.
 
If anyone can/willing to chime in on the differences between generations, I would love to hear your thoughts! Thanks.

OK, so this is all just stuff I've read over the years, here and there, heavily condensed and simplified:

The studio monitor version of the L100 was reportedly designed to emulate the midrange peaky sound of the Altec 604 driver in a smaller box. The woofer runs full-range, directly off the amp, and the midrange has a pronounced peak with no attempt to flatten it, built into the crossover. The box is a bit small for the woofer and benefits from having the port plugged.

Later versions have better, more refined crossovers, and less of a peaky midrange and boomy bass.

Much more here:

http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/l100.htm

And more thoughts here:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/JBL_L100.htm
 
I think there were at least two versions of the paper-cone tweeter, the LE25 and the LE26, the latter measurably much better than the former.

I think that, if the only speakers I had were a pair of L100s or even L36s, I would be quite fond of them.

But the times I was able to run L100s and L36s, and compare them directly against the other speakers in my setup, the deficiencies of the paper cone tweeter stuck out like a sore thumb and in that context was something I just couldn't ignore.

With that said, I agree that Titanium tweeters can be harsh and have their downsides as well. My favorite tweeter is the 033 in my L150s.
 
When I was kid the L100s were mouth watering audio iconic eye candy something one could only be intimate with if part of the arriviste or so it felt like:)

the very mention of those causes my credit cards to throb and cry out "use me, ME!"

seriously, those were "IT" back in the day...:banana:
 
I like variety.

For jazz, piano, and pop, I love my 4311A's
For female vocals, my infinities are hard to beat
For rock, live recordings nd instrumentals, the 4312A's are the better choice.
 
Exactly.

Besides, eb*y sales trends and prices don't always reflect true market reality imo. This, and the auction part of eb*y, just kinda throws the whole thing out the window in terms of cost/value.

Actually, eBay sales trends and prices define true Fair Market Value.
 
With that said, I agree that Titanium tweeters can be harsh and have their downsides as well. My favorite tweeter is the 033 in my L150s.

Note that i don't think titanium tweeters are harsh. I just thought that the ones on the L100T were slightly harsh. The titanium tweeters on my current speakers (Technics SB-1000) are smooth as silk (pun intended).
 
Actually, eBay sales trends and prices define true Fair Market Value.

I dont agree in the case of vintage items, heavy item or in the case where only a few auctions for a specific item have occured. There are too many variables to consider. If you have items that that regularly pull in a price then I would agree, but if I am looking for an item and only 2 auctions have been completed, i am not going to use that as baseline for value. This also varies by location.
 
There are many sub groups of speaker owners. Those who like the New England Sound, Big horn Sound, Klipsch sound, Altec, Bozak etc etc. JBL makes many classes of speakers. Pro sound, Hifi sound, esoteric sound, Home theatre. They are like the big bully on the block some times. So folks get easily offended. But like a good Single Malt Scotch if thats your choice you will pay a premium for it, while the bourbon, vodka, and gin lovers will cry fowl!
 
I dont agree in the case of vintage items, heavy item or in the case where only a few auctions for a specific item have occured. There are too many variables to consider. If you have items that that regularly pull in a price then I would agree, but if I am looking for an item and only 2 auctions have been completed, i am not going to use that as baseline for value. This also varies by location.

For very heavy items, you are correct. And, if there are only one or two sales, that is not enough to define a trend.

Actually, since eBay is global, the location is no longer a restriction on price, except for shipping weight.
 
Perhaps, but what are your alternatives? Craigslist asking prices are not truly useful for determining value, as you may find a few sellers who are giving stuff away for well below the real value, and some that are asking astronomical prices that nobody will ever pay, but I don't think either of those really reflect the true value of anything. So if not EBay, then what?

I haven't followed them for a while now, but SCML (Sports Car Market Letter) used to publish a price guide where they tried to tackle this problem. They'd compile results from EBay auctions, real live auctions, posted ads, etc, and boil things down based on condition of the vehicle, etc, but that takes a lot of work.

bs
 
I contend that more vintage speakers are sold locally than through ebay because of the shipping and poor track record for peoples packing skills. Everytime someone locally tends to reference ebay prices, I counter with the seller looses money via fees and the buy looses money via shipping costs. This is money that neither side benefits from, so, its not a valid baseline. Prices fluctuate so much, the market it typically good at communicating if you are too far off on the prices. You get offers or emails telling you that you are crazy.
 
I contend that more vintage speakers are sold locally than through ebay because of the shipping and poor track record for peoples packing skills. Everytime someone locally tends to reference ebay prices, I counter with the seller looses money via fees and the buy looses money via shipping costs. This is money that neither side benefits from, so, its not a valid baseline. Prices fluctuate so much, the market it typically good at communicating if you are too far off on the prices. You get offers or emails telling you that you are crazy.

Understood, and I agree. But the problem is, if you're watching sales and trying to determine value based on that, then you don't have good data, because you don't know what something actually sold for.

Say, hypothetically, that a pair of JBL L100's is worth $500. You see a pair on CL for $100, and they sell quickly. That doesn't mean they're all of a sudden only worth $100, it means somebody got a screaming good deal.

Likewise, a pair is advertised for $1500. You contact them, convince them they're worth $500, and buy them for $500. Anybody else who's watching doesn't know what they actually sold for, and again, we can't assume they're now worth $1500 because somebody was asking that much for them and now they're sold.

I'm not arguing that heavy items like speakers sell more often on CL vs EBay, I agree with you that they do sell more on CL. I'm just trying to point out that CL doesn't help the observer of these postings determine a value, because you have no way of knowing the actual sale price, unless you're the guy who bought or sold them. With EBay, the observer knows what something actually sold for.

bs
 
Understood, and I agree. But the problem is, if you're watching sales and trying to determine value based on that, then you don't have good data, because you don't know what something actually sold for.

Say, hypothetically, that a pair of JBL L100's is worth $500. You see a pair on CL for $100, and they sell quickly. That doesn't mean they're all of a sudden only worth $100, it means somebody got a screaming good deal.

Likewise, a pair is advertised for $1500. You contact them, convince them they're worth $500, and buy them for $500. Anybody else who's watching doesn't know what they actually sold for, and again, we can't assume they're now worth $1500 because somebody was asking that much for them and now they're sold.

I'm not arguing that heavy items like speakers sell more often on CL vs EBay, I agree with you that they do sell more on CL. I'm just trying to point out that CL doesn't help the observer of these postings determine a value, because you have no way of knowing the actual sale price, unless you're the guy who bought or sold them. With EBay, the observer knows what something actually sold for.

bs

That is why if Im selling something that doesn't have a consistent baseline, I typically start a little high on CL. Around here, poeple are usually pretty outspoken if your prices are not reasonable, not to mention even if you price is fair, you still have tire kickers
 
...The 'completed listings' section (or whatever it was called) was a decent reflection of the market (at least the Eb*y market), but they got rid of that, didn't they?

Completed listings and Sold listings are still there. I use them all the time.

And, for the record, it is NOT correct to say that a majority of members dislike the L100s. Some, sure, but I've met folks that hate Hartsfields. Different strokes, and all that.

I love mine. Chocolate brown Quadrex for me! :D Actually, I have two complete sets of grills, the "original replacement" brown fabric that JBL gave to everyone when their original Quadrex grills started deteriorating, plus the set of chocolate reproduction foam.
 
4311's and L100's I have owned were fun, sold all of them off and kept a couple sets of RSL 12" 3-ways for that type of speaker, actually like them better, always have. Kept a pair of JBL L96's I like much as the other JBL's I have had.

Way back Record Plant had 4311's as monitors in some rooms, tweeters all the way up and loud. Used to listen to Stevie Wonder lay down tracks live. I think they were correct for their use at the time and still are.

Old guy now and since I listen to MJQ and Coltrane so much + Chopin...and Schubert I use a pair of Dynaco A-25's or recapped KLH's.

West coast sound on a budget: RSL's. East Coast sound on a budget: KLH 17's, 20's, probably any old KLH's recapped and sealed are nice friendly all day speakers for me, but I am easy to please.

We are real lucky to have this stuff around, like buying 70's muscle cars cheap.
 
Back
Top Bottom