Tech time: Latino ST70 with low bias voltages

jjones3 said:

What does 100% mean to you?

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I already answered that earlier so let me pose the same question to you.

In terms of a singular percentage that describes this particular amp based on any or all information you have from this thread, what percentage would you assign to it? Next, now that we have that, explain exactly how did you arrive at this percentage? Is it rounded to only two or three digits? Or is it more precise? If rounded to only two or three digits, why so? Thanks, I await your sincere and vigorous reply.

Shadowdog said:

I don't think you'll be happy sonically or with the repairable quality of those low cost tube amps. and if your on a budget have patience and fix what you have!

First buy some good tubes and a new PCB and then better output transformers(if needed) as that's what defines the final sonics of a tube amp if you have the circuit and tubes up to par. As I mentioned you can get good $ (maybe $200) for your old output trans. if need be and if you spend the $700-800 mentioned you will have sonically a Hi End tube amp on a budget.

Spending a lot on a new unit doesn't always get you top of the line Output Transformers either as you could be paying for the looks which is why I'm saying diy as and you mentioned possibly doing that. Anyway you've got a pretty foolproof setup to start with.

You already have a decent new condition chassis and really good (upgraded ) PS trans to work with. There are lots of good PCB 's with decent circuits for the Dynaco ST-70 which is a great advantage along with easy an easy to repair design that others understand also so there is lots of help there.

Tubes require lots of patience sometimes and so aren't for everyone either, but I like them due to their better sonics for the $ and easy repairability!

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Thanks for the encouragement. You are encouraging in your attitude about these amps, and I appreciate it. I very well may build one at some point in the hopes of understanding them better. Maybe a Latino ST-120. Right now I work a lot though, not much time to screw around at home, and I think a factory built might be the better way to go, Rogue or Vincent probably.

bktheking said:

I meant you shouldn't sell it at a discount price cause you'll lose money , I was encouraging you to bring it up to snuff to get your investment back- I guess you took it the wrong way. I've never bashed anyone in a forum about anything , was try to be encouraging.

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Oh ok, well most here have been very encouraging and I appreciate that. A few are internet assholes for one reason or another, they come here because most people will tolerate them. Open discussion is one thing, but these people like to frequent places where they are more or less not held accountable for their aggression. Internet by its very nature yields to this group a little bit and supplies little pushback, so they flourish. Many years of using and in one case running another web board makes me well aware of these types and how to deal with them. Glad you are on the positive side, I am too, and internet behavior is after all another application of any normal code of ethical human behavior.

Hard Bop said:

I already answered that earlier so let me pose the same question to you.

In terms of a singular percentage that describes this particular amp based on any or all information you have from this thread, what percentage would you assign to it? Next, now that we have that, explain exactly how did you arrive at this percentage? Is it rounded to only two or three digits? Or is it more precise? If rounded to only two or three digits, why so? Thanks, I await your sincere and vigorous reply.

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That's exactly the problem. My 100% isn't the same as your 100%, nor the same as several other posters have implied. It's just asking for trouble, IMO, to list it that way because from what I gather it's mostly the buyer's interpretation of 100% (or the description) that matters, not the sellers.

Why not get rid of the percentage all together? Describe the condition of the amp, the work performed, your return policy, and let it go at that.

whoaru99 said:

That's exactly the problem. My 100% isn't the same as your 100%, nor the same as several other posters have implied. It's just asking for trouble, IMO, to list it that way.

Why not get rid of the percentage all together? Describe the condition of the amp, the work performed, your return policy, and let it go at that.

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This entire thread is about an amp that is not 100% - it is more like 20% with a desperate need of rebuilding with a new driver board and tube sockets. Be honest in your sale and sell as an auction with a very low entry price 10.00 and charge for shipping and handling. Part out the tubes or keep them for another amp - they certainly didn't cost you much. It should hopefully sell for what it is worth and you can rest easy vs getting an earful from a future buyer.

Good luck

costerdock said:

This entire thread is about an amp that is not 100% - it is more like 20% with a desperate need of rebuilding with a new driver board and tube sockets. Be honest in your sale and sell as an auction with a very low entry price 10.00 and charge for shipping and handling. Part out the tubes or keep them for another amp - they certainly didn't cost you much. It should hopefully sell for what it is worth and you can rest easy vs getting an earful from a future buyer.

Good luck

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Oh I can rest easy having spent $400 in lost cash and months of my personal time making something I bought accidentally as piece of disappointing junk into a fully working amplifier. I think your understanding of that is worth about 20% of a what a decent internet post is worth. I think you are more disappointed with the clear illustration by this thread on my dime mind you, that an old amp like this is basically an unreliable piece of crap that soaks up spare cash and does not sound any better than a $375 NAD. In fact it sounds worse while costing three times as much. Getting warm?

whoaru99 said:

That's exactly the problem. My 100% isn't the same as your 100%, nor the same as several other posters have implied. It's just asking for trouble, IMO, to list it that way because from what I gather it's mostly the buyer's interpretation of 100% (or the description) that matters, not the sellers.

Why not get rid of the percentage all together? Describe the condition of the amp, the work performed, your return policy, and let it go at that.

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So what's your answer? 10%? How did you get that figure? Humor us on your calculation. The amp was described using the phrase "works 100%" which it does. How do you know some other number is the correct percentage?

I cannot understand the sentence in your post - at anyrate you had this amp working in this thread at one point then it died and you got it working again to sell.

Good luck with that.

It sold yesterday for the full Buy It Now price thank you. I already have good luck, at least when I am buying a new amps and not this 50 year old one.

Poor soul.

Hard Bop said:

So what's your answer? 10%? How did you get that figure? Humor us on your calculation. The amp was described using the phrase "works 100%" which it does. How do you know some other number is the correct percentage?

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In what way was my previous post, suggesting no percent, unclear?

If you insist on a numerical rating, consider looking at the Audiogon rating scale. At least there is something in print for an arbitrator to consider if there is a dispute.

http://support.audiogon.com/customer/portal/articles/606176

costerdock said:

Poor soul.

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Are you implying I am a poor soul for having suffered through this old crappy ST-70 for the last 9 pages worth? Thanks, you're a nice guy.

No. I'm referring to the buyer.

whoaru99 said:

In what way was my previous post, suggesting no percent, unclear?

If you insist on a numerical rating, consider looking at the Audiogon rating scale. At least there is something in print for an arbitrator to consider if there is a dispute.

http://support.audiogon.com/customer/portal/articles/606176

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Don't put words in my mouth please. I said on eBay this amp works 100%, as in functionally it works right which is as far as I know is correct and truthful. It is only a statement about its functionality also. Next, I described the condition of the amp using phrases like "shows wear appropriate to an item of this age" which is another accurate statment. There is no point scale at eBay for vintage audio components, so stuff that one back where it goes. Is anything in my ad copy erroneous or deceitful, even in the slightest? Since when was a 50 year old piece of audio gear supposed to be warranted, guaranteed, or even subjected to a cosmetic condition scale at eBay? You served to illustrate my point, which is there is no scale for this amplifier to score on. "Works 100%" is a common figure of speech.

I appreciate that such an amp is a risk to any buyer but that's what questions are for and it is the nature of vintage buying. If the buyer said to me hey, how about a picture of under the hood so I can decide what you really have there, or I'll buy it if some technician or other certifies it first, then fine that's fair turnabout on an old item like this. But for me to simply venture forth any dirt I can scare up in the name of honest is ridiculous. It's a 50 year old vintage amp. There isn't a 50 year old hobby amplifier out there which can't be marked bad for having some problem or other, be it old caps, resistors, wires, or some other aspect of its 50 year old-ness. It goes with the territory.

Find someone else to corner. Or at least have an argument.

costerdock said:

No. I'm referring to the buyer.

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Your opinion. Obviously someone thought it was a fair value because they bought it and did not ask any questions about it either. And my opinion you have no argument even if they did. This is a crappy 50 year old amp but none of them are very good for $600 at 50 years old. Not as far as I can tell. If you want me to think mine was a unique lemon somehow, I disgree. I think it is merely typical for old amps of this kind and the buyer got a fair price on a crappy old amp. I sold at a large loss in fact.

I put no words in your mouth.

And, about cornering you, I have no idea what you mean by that in this context. You quote me and ask question(s), I reply. That's sorta how it works.

As far as a vintage scale, there is no need. All that would serve is for some convoluted means to try to give something a big number that doesn't deserve one. The Audiogon scale is universal based on condition and function. Old stuff can be in very good condition and function, thus meriting a respectable number, such as units fully restored by some of our resident experts.

You two guys think you are cornering me for being liar I guess. You're wrong. But actually there is another message on this thread the intelligent reader will take away. I bought an old Dynaco ST-70 in good faith hoping for a decent amp, and got nothing but heartache out of it. I found out the hard way these things are truly awful amplifiers compared to modern amps for less money, they are unreliable as hell and they are expensive to repair. I'll sit here and hammer that message all day guys, let's go.

Hard Bop said:

... let's go.

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Despite being very tempting, it's neither necessary nor worth it.

These old ST-70s are poor substitutes for modern amps costing hundreds less and performing better. I just bought a mid-60s modified ST-70 and experienced total disappointment with it. The modern amp designs are far more reliable, sound better and do not require much maintenance. I am of the opinion these vintage amps have an inflated market value as such, and represent a potential disappointment to anyone interested in good sound for a modest amount of money. Beware guys, old ST-70s are similar to 60s cars- just outdated machinery.

Hard Bop said:

I already answered that earlier so let me pose the same question to you.

In terms of a singular percentage that describes this particular amp based on any or all information you have from this thread, what percentage would you assign to it? Next, now that we have that, explain exactly how did you arrive at this percentage? Is it rounded to only two or three digits? Or is it more precise? If rounded to only two or three digits, why so? Thanks, I await your sincere and vigorous reply.

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I believe this issue people are having a hard time accepting, myself included, is how an amp described in post #97 as "There probably is some fairly easy fix for it..." suddenly has "no known functional problems" two days later. What happened in those two days that took you from believing something is wrong with the amp to stating it has no issues?

These are well known, well liked, and reliable amps. Unfortunately you bought a very poor example of one and that is, well, unfortunate. That's not to say tube amps are for you, that's just to say don't draw such broad conclusions from a sampling of one.

"I just bought a mid-60s modified ST-70 and experienced total disappointment with it."

I don't think it's fair to complain about an ST 70/reliability when you never HAD an ST 70. You had an amp "formerly known as an ST 70" which was modified in some unknown way by someone you don't know anything about who may or may not have had the faintest idea how to solder or do anything else.

Speaking of that...you are using a SOLDERING GUN for this sort of work? We need to talk...

Or better yet, just go here and give them your credit card number:

http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WESD51...1245&sr=1-2&keywords=weller+soldering+station

Then get back on ebay and buy an ORIGINAL, UNMODIFIED ST70 and start over.