MC275 Tube roll

Preamp is a C2500 and it has Mullard 10M Master series 12AX7 installed, the speakers are Klipsch.

I've read & searched for anything I can find regarding tube rolling a MC275. I'm thinking I'd prefer to populate it with 1st generation tubes than their newer counterparts.

I have a set of four Siemens NOS ESS801S that I think would work nicely in there. The original Genalex 12AX7 are not affordable any more but I do have 4 NOS Gold Brand Sylvania GB-5751 which are delightfully musical tubes and have 4 nice Mullard 12AX7 as well. I think the Telefunken ECC83 are so clear it's almost a tad bright for the horns in my speakers. But maybe not? This is where trying is believing but to purchase every different kind of tube just to see what I like is too expensive for me.

Given the needed KT88 & 12AX7 which is still up for debate, is anyone using the Siemens ECC803S in their MC275 & if so, what other tubes did you come up with that works beautiful with horns?

Thanks,

You and your tubes

Is this the new MC275 Mk VI ?

4-2-7 said:

You and your tubes

Is this the new MC275 Mk VI ?

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If you don't ask you might never hear other's opinions.:yes:

I'm considering a V4 or V5, don't need the newest & most current.

For me, I was stunned when I heard the obvious difference between tubes in the C2500. Had I not read here about all the different results available I would have never known. With a SS you get beautiful sounds but I do like the ability to color the sound the way I prefer. Tubes have always had a place in my heart, I even have a hand made DeForest triode from around 1909. So if I'm going to be buying an amp, it's going to have tubes. But now which tubes seem to work really well with a MC275. Other than from my searches, I have no idea & nobody close sells McIntosh.

KA1J said:

If you don't ask you might never hear other's opinions.:yes:

I'm considering a V4 or V5, don't need the newest & most current.

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Well I bring that up because it looks like you're buying gear just to use your Dad's old box of tubes. In my opinion that's not why one selects a unit as to match an old box of tubes.

KA1J said:

For me, I was stunned when I heard the obvious difference between tubes in the C2500. Had I not read here about all the different results available I would have never known. With a SS you get beautiful sounds but I do like the ability to color the sound the way I prefer. Tubes have always had a place in my heart, I even have a hand made DeForest triode from around 1909. So if I'm going to be buying an amp, it's going to have tubes. But now which tubes seem to work really well with a MC275. Other than from my searches, I have no idea & nobody close sells McIntosh.

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In your thread asking about amps which by the way you did not participate in, I mentioned Mac clean sound.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=613210 The MC275, 4.5.6. are all the new design and sound so clean they are like the Mc SS offerings. That said tube rolling doesn't do much at all IMO with these units. As far as you hear a big difference rolling the 2500 and playback in a living room though a pair of Klipsch speakers, placebo maybe:scratch2:

You're right, I didn't reply to that thread. I'd forgotten to subscribe to it and Meant to comment and it was something that slipped by me. Some good answers there too.

As to my Dad's tubes, there are a bunch of them for sure but at this point the only ones I really like regarding the 12AX7 family are those Sylvania Gold Brand GB-5751. The others are nice but I find I really like those. I am going to get a good tube tester, get it calibrated and then go through all of his tubes and sell them once I have the correct values & when I'm done evaluating all of them, I'll sell the tester.

As to the placebo, for sure placebos are a valid possibility; I always laugh at the "Pirin tablets" from the Birdcage. As to the tubes effect being placebo; no, I immediately noticed the difference between the stock tubes that came with the preamp and those GB-5751. I then tried the Telefunken EC83 and again heard a marked difference. I use Nora Jones singing "Your Cheating Heart" and listen to the subtleties in her voice & piano as my test music. I found the Telefunkens to capture just about everything there and if I were going to listen to a tune to dissect it to learn, that clarity would be an asset. I did find though, I much more preferred the Sylvanias for closing my eyes and relaxing.

I owe it to myself to find out which tubes I like best but I don't want to seek them all out and deal with that expense & then reselling the ones I like less. I've always loved McIntosh and that's what I'm going to go with. I've always liked tubes so that's what I'm going with. So that's why I'm asking so much in that direction.

Speaking of tubes, Here's a Tube from my collection that's from WWII, it's made by Eimac & is a TH-750. I put a 12AX7 box next to it for comparison.



Yeah, I like tubes.

Now that's a TUBE.

How much power are your speakers getting now?

Yup, that's a tube. One of the largest glass tubes ever made.

Don't have a watt meter on my amp. I have the preamp set around 20-25 most of the time. The NAD 218THX is 250W/channel.

KA1J said:

Yup, that's a tube. One of the largest glass tubes ever made.

Don't have a watt meter on my amp. I have the preamp set around 20-25 most of the time. The NAD 218THX is 250W/channel.

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Websearch for MEXICAN "BORDER BLASTER" TUBE,
Compare this tube to the doorway on the right.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

As 4-2-7 said "Now that's a TUBE" I can see them plugging into the Grand Coulee dam with that one.

KA1J said:

Yup, that's a tube. One of the largest glass tubes ever made.

Don't have a watt meter on my amp. I have the preamp set around 20-25 most of the time. The NAD 218THX is 250W/channel.

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Well going from a 250WPC amp to a 90WPC is not going to make you happy.

I understand what you're saying. OTOH, I remember my Fender Twin offered 100 watts and there's no way I'd want to turn that up all the way. the MC275 has two 75 watt amps and in this house with hardwood floors, 75/channel will probably be plenty. If not, I'll see what crops up in my PayPal sales and might well get a 2nd one. I know I can't enjoy the music if I have the pre set at more than 25% using the DAC and 30% with the tuner, this with the trim level set at zero.

I would like to hear what the amp sounds where its going to be living here but nobody nearby sells them so it'll have to be bought here by mail order, one way or the other.

But as to my original question, I'd appreciate suggestions as to tubes that might balance well with my Klipsch speakers, from people using the MC275.

KA1J said:

I understand what you're saying. OTOH, I remember my Fender Twin offered 100 watts and there's no way I'd want to turn that up all the way. the MC275 has two 75 watt amps and in this house with hardwood floors, 75/channel will probably be plenty. If not, I'll see what crops up in my PayPal sales and might well get a 2nd one. I know I can't enjoy the music if I have the pre set at more than 25% using the DAC and 30% with the tuner, this with the trim level set at zero.

I would like to hear what the amp sounds where its going to be living here but nobody nearby sells them so it'll have to be bought here by mail order, one way or the other.

But as to my original question, I'd appreciate suggestions as to tubes that might balance well with my Klipsch speakers, from people using the MC275.

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I said 90w for a reason!! the newer 275s are 90WPC and 180w Bridged

My guess is the amp is not going to distort under the operating conditions I'm giving it. I'm an acoustic musician and loud isn't much of a necessity to me, it's the reproduction I care about. If I have a party I don't want the sound to be louder than the conversations or people will have to raise their voices to be heard & if they do, that's counterproductive. If I'm playing the music just to me or my lady, I don't want it so loud we can't talk, so it all goes back to what makes the best sound & volume-wise I really don't need a can of whup ass from my amplifier. I do want that from the tone though.

Well I think mono bkocks are better than stereo amps. Less cross talk and a better signal. You also dig old technology so maybe look at the MC60, MC75. There is a sweet looking set of 60s on my local CL for around 3 grand.

KA1J,

Audio Classics, which is located in Vestal N.Y, will be exhibiting at The New York Audio show in Brooklyn, NY at the New York Marriott Brooklyn Bridge Hotel on September 26, 27 and 28. I believe they will be showing vintage McIntosh equipment, you can give them a call and see if they will be bringing down any tube amps.

Joe

Speaking of tubes, Here's a Tube from my collection that's from WWII, it's made by Eimac & is a TH-750. I put a 12AX7 box next to it for comparison.

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I saw that picture of the super size tube and it reminded me of these NAT audio amps I had seen earlier. Not trying to hijack a thread but, check these amps out. They make 160 wpc pure class A and are called the worlds largest SET amps. I've never seen anything like it. They cost $55,000 a pair.....

http://http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2007/11/15/the-most-powerful-tube-amplifier-ever-built/

I'm surprised that you guys think that tube rolling doesn't impact the sound of the MC275 reissues. I find that it makes a night and day difference inside of my MC225.

here we go again with tube rolling or swapping. Unless you have a Sound technology analyzer to check your amps performance, you are just shooting in the dark. What you think is a more desirable sound may be clogged with warming distortion usually harmonic. If you have added clarity the odds are you have attenuated the bass and over emphasized the treble. Its hard enough to get optimum performance from off the shelf tubes, no matter the manufacturer of tube. There's a reason Mac charges an arm and a leg for tubes.

Its one reason I stick with SS. I will admit SS needs service too. My former Crowns were recapped and serviced every 10 years. I suspect my 207's will need service after 15 years, too. MY C-29 went 30+ years with only minor mechanical issues. My MR-80, 25 years and my MC2505 is still performing up to specs after 40 years, but just because I said that will mean it will crash soon.

Here we go again with glib dismissals of anything which might possibly make any differences to the sound which can't easily be quantified, or for which one doesn't have the patience to try for oneself...

It would be nice if those who refuse to venture into the wonderful world of tubes themselves didn't feel the need to speak down to those of us who do. Some of us prefer to make decisions about what sounds best to us by actually listening with our ears rather than purely looking at spec sheets, even despite some highly technical backgrounds which might surprise some people.