Don't like my cambridge audio system very much, what should I change?

Bubo said:

Art,

You pose a good question, probably a good discussion at a pub.

In reviewing the thread starters in modern day, I see plenty of tubes and turn tables..........retro perhaps???

If memory serves me correctly, it was turntable, tubes and horn loaded speakers.......like the photo I posted.

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Not retro if it is Modern Day HiFi. For that I look at the date of manufacture not the age of the technology. Perhaps a mod can clarify whether there is an actual meaning to "Modern Day HiFi" or if is just a "pub discussion". If it were I don't think that the good folks that run this joint would have this subforum.

kcbluesman said:

I would say that I am relatively neutral on them...and in fact miss the Forte's occasionally, when listening to certain music. The Heresy's? Not so much......

... narrowing down his speaker selection based on suggestions driven by HIS preferences, then doing some serious listening (demos/trials).

Similarly, where in the thread has anyone suggested that Klipsch-lovers are buffoons?.

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I've been told Forts have more range than Heresy, I haven't heard them in 35+ years in the showroom when I purchased the LaScalas instead of the K-Horns because they were more flexible and portable from move to move. The Forte's didn't have the market success of the Heresy and are harder to find, price I'm not sure, the Heresy's are manufactured today, so they are "modern speakers"...... 40+ years of market success in a highly competitive space where so many others failed and gone out of business.

We have the room dimensions, his preferences, his budget and the existing gear which could easily drive the Heresy's. I agree with the post stating his speakers don't have the muscle for the music he listens to.

KC the clear intent of your post was to poison Klipsch speakers which is dismissive of their long term market success in homes and theaters and by extension those who bought them. You could have just as easily stated that you had a pair and like the XXXX speakers better which are inside of the budget range. Now that I know he's in the UK, KEF had some competitive speakers when I heard them last.

My suggestions were get studio headphones and try to isolate the point at which you don't like the sound. Try component swapping, which if you buy used you can always sell the non keeper and continue looking. And finally buy widely accepted and recognized used gear which can be resold for what was paid months or even years later. In the used gear market, nothing is more under-priced than high end surround amps that don't have HDMI interfaces. He did express an interest in a Vintage amp, 1998 may be one mans Vintage and it may be more expensive and unnecessary to go all the way back to the early 1980s for an amp with some muscle, like 110Wrms + good specs.

In short, my suggestions fit his budget, room size and preferences and gets him gear that specs out against anything on the market, and if not the keeper gear can be resold for what he paid. In fact, he could AB vs his existing system and mix components.

Trashing the competition is poor salesmanship IMHO and the opinion of the customers I met with worldwide.

Given that we have all of the requirements, what are your recommendations?

Art K. said:

Not retro if it is Modern Day HiFi. For that I look at the date of manufacture not the age of the technology. Perhaps a mod can clarify whether there is an actual meaning to "Modern Day HiFi" or if is just a "pub discussion". If it were I don't think that the good folks that run this joint would have this subforum.

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That's a tough one but the Heresy is still sold as new on the Klipsch website so the specific recommendation can still be viewed as modern. Recommending a previous iteration of the same loudspeaker for less money is probably fair as well. Even the Altec 19 and VOTT was brought back by a few different makers and sold as new. (Burewell and Sons is an example) so is it modern in the sense it is sold new or modern in technology? If the latter then most of the tube discussions have to be chucked out since Line Magnetic is a re-envisioning of Western Electric which is about as vintage as vintage gets.

Bubo said:

KC the clear intent of your post was to poison Klipsch speakers which is dismissive of their long term market success in homes and theaters and by extension those who bought them. You could have just as easily stated that you had a pair and like the XXXX speakers better which are inside of the budget range.

In short, my suggestions fit his budget, room size and preferences and gets him gear that specs out against anything on the market, and if not the keeper gear can be resold for what he paid. In fact, he could AB vs his existing system and mix components.

Trashing the competition is poor salesmanship IMHO and the opinion of the customer's I met with worldwide.

Given that we have all of the requirements, what are your recommendations?

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Wow. You sure have a knack for misrepresentation and exaggeration. I expressed my opinion as regards the Klipsch sound (which I believe the majority of audio enthusiasts would agree is more polarizing than many other brands of speakers). I also characterized them as I hear them....and have been careful to note that others most certainly hear them differently (in other words, preferences vary!). Why does the fact that I am not a big fan make me dismissive of those who are? Does this also mean that those who don't like the speakers I enjoy are being dismissive of me? I think not...although if it does, that's ok by me!).

As for trashing the competition....I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Do you see this as a competition, in which you "win" by getting people to buy the speakers you like? On second thought, this might explain your response.

As for my recommendations, I think I've already been pretty clear regarding my opinions that a) the OP should start with speakers, and b) he should do some listening to various speakers so as to get a better sense of his sound preferences. Personally, I very rarely recommend speakers (given the subjective nature of preferences); however, I will certainly provide my assessment of the characteristics of speakers with which I am familiar when the subject arises (always with the caveat that my impressions are exactly that...MY impressions). I have no need to convince anyone else that my systems sound good...the only person I'm trying to please is me. Fortunately, my wife seems to have adopted my preferences....so I end up pleasing her as well. Which is nice.

By the way, customers, as you used the word, is plural, not possessive. No apostrophe needed.

You guys are going waaayyy off topic. I'm surprised thread hasn't been shut down.

I agree. I just can't resist responding when someone misquotes me so egregiously, or accuses me of something I did not do. I'll do now what I should have done earlier and unsubscribe. Thanks for the wake-up.

kcbluesman said:

I agree. I just can't resist responding when someone misquotes me so egregiously, or accuses me of something I did not do. I'll do now what I should have done earlier and unsubscribe. Thanks for the wake-up.

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Just use the block feature. I do it all the time:yes:

AS above .. Amps can and Do make a substantial difference.
No subtlety involved at all, unless dealing with variations betwixt extreme price/ quality units
Assuming of course one isn't powering simply Awful speakers, which are incapable of improved sounds no matter what.
Cambridge is Mid fi gear.. no more no less, definitely Not keepers.
Try an an AKITIKA amp (an odd name but google it) it's a simple, basic, homely (but affordable ) lm 3886 unit.
But it's V well designed and assembled in USA, A memorably good amp in use, doubly so given the low price point.
The sound differences will be instantly apparent.. Might even make the rest of the Cambridge 'stuff' sound decent as result.
As you already have a discrete phono section yer good to go

"Christopher Hitchens has a lot of quote-worthy material".........

“What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

kcbluesman said:

...... I believe the majority of audio enthusiasts would agree (Klipsch) is more polarizing than many other brands of speakers

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Art K. said:

I'm going against the grain here because to my ears the biggest offenders would be the CA electronics.

Replace the amp and CD player first and then the speakers and lastly the analog rig.

How you describe the sound of your system is how I describe the sound of CA electronics.

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I agree with Art, though my CA experience is limited.

Had the BD650 universal player for a while and it just had the same electronic quality when playing music that the OP refers to. An inexpensive Denon universal (the 1611) produced much more natural sounding music.

Had a 550T tuner as well and the less said the better. It's an inexpensive tuner, but it was roundly beaten by other tuners I've tried since (Rega Radio 3 and the Marantz ST-17). Lack of clarity was the issue there, not so much an electronic sound.

I'd like to comment on your vinyl replay if I may, first thing I'd swap out would be the Project pre-amp. I've had their bargain basement model as well as the top of the range Tube Box II and they both sounded overly warm and lacking dynamics to my ears, I'd say its definitely strangling this area of performance, phono pre-amps have a bigger influence on vinyl than they are given credit for.

cubdog said:

Given your taste in music I'd replace the speakers first. Your asking a lot of a 4 1/2 inch woofer.

cubdog

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I'd suggest looking into whether a sub would improve your 'electronic' sound. The S30 is only rated down to 55 hz which is, inadequate to deliver the full impact of orchestral/classic rock/heavy metal. It would likely add some warmth if properly adjusted. I would also note that these are budget speakers ($260 list price) and more money can buy better speakers.

None of this is to say that different amplification and/or source might not improve the sound, just that the speakers are a limiting factor at this point.

I bought a Cambridge 651A about two weeks ago, it is the first piece of new, modern kit I have bought in many years apart from a pair of Usher S520 speakers about two years ago.

Up until now I have used primarily second hand vintage amps and receivers. Rotel 802 and Sansui 881.

I am quite impressed with the 651A, open, detailed, sufficient power nice and quiet background, which through age both the Sansui and the Rotel were giving up.

I can't hear an electronic sheen at all. I am running the amp with a pair of AR19 Connoisseur book shelf speakers on stands in a medium sized room. Low volume.

My Pioneer VSX D1S gives them a little more oomph and presence, but the Cambridge is not offensive in the least.

I love these entry level hi fi components. Although I recognized the quality of the Usher's regardless of the price I could never find the right amp to drive them, they sound dry they were lacking a certain juicyness.

I was wondering if any one could comment on the high end of the Wharfedale 10.1's if they are open at the top. I was playing my Paradigm Atom V3's because I love the way they do piano, but they have this slight veiling of the high end of a female vocal range I find that annoys me.

Just saying.

IMO,if you want Klipsch Heritage series speakers,get rid of that CA amp ASAP.I had a 640 paired with Klipsch Chorus II speakers,some that are much bigger and more efficient than the Heresys,and the two together sounded so shrill and harsh I couldnt listen to them for more than 5 minutes at a time.Ive had several pairs of Klipsch,and a tube amp was always the best pairing Ive had.
My 2 cents.
Jimmy

If you are in the UK,I know from living there for four years,your selection of good,fairly inexpensive monitor style speakers is much,much bettter than here in the states,since the UK brands are cheaper there,natch.
Jimmy

Art K. said:

I'm going against the grain here because to my ears the biggest offenders would be the CA electronics.

Replace the amp and CD player first and then the speakers and lastly the analog rig.

How you describe the sound of your system is how I describe the sound of CA electronics.

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Haven't heard CA, but suspect Art is on to something here...