external preamps : worth it?

G

gratefuldead

New Member
I'm sure this thread has been up before but ive talked to a ton of "experts" and some disagree saying fancy preamps are a waste and just amplification of a signal. I'm a semi newb that has a few questions.


my listening is mainly in music. i have a modern home theatre that is seperate from my music listening system. i have a marantz 2245 and a sansui 9010 decent japanese receivers but how is their preamps?

i have a few decent external preamps kicking around ... a Creek OBH15 and a Bellari VP129(Tube) my question is with these decent vintage receivers is it worth using a preamp ? I want to preserve that vintage sound will using a preamp hinder that?

any insight is appreciated.:thmbsp:
 
As well i failed to mention I am mainly listening with a Technics 1200 mkII with an audiophile grade cartridge (Grace F-8E, Signet TK5ea)
 
I've found the pre amps in the Marantz and Sansui receivers to be quite good although I've never tried an external.If you have those laying around you should give them a shot.The only way you'll know is a listening test.
 
Well-only my opinion-but as you move up the food chain a good preamp becomes more and more important.
 
gratefuldead said:
I'm sure this thread has been up before but ive talked to a ton of "experts" and some disagree saying fancy preamps are a waste and just amplification of a signal. I'm a semi newb that has a few questions.


my listening is mainly in music. i have a modern home theatre that is seperate from my music listening system. i have a marantz 2245 and a sansui 9010 decent japanese receivers but how is their preamps?

i have a few decent external preamps kicking around ... a Creek OBH15 and a Bellari VP129(Tube) my question is with these decent vintage receivers is it worth using a preamp ? I want to preserve that vintage sound will using a preamp hinder that?

any insight is appreciated.:thmbsp:
Click to expand...
I like your expert comment and of coerce they are wrong.

As far as what you have in the Complet System is a guess right now for us. So will it sound better or even work for you I don't know.
 
I don't understand the retort by 427?

OP.. It would be interesting to see if the tube 'pre could be hooked into your theater for phono. I have tried my Yammie 861 with my empire gold TT in direct mode and it's pretty flat so I need a tube buffer if I want to run it that way. MM/mm on the amp. However in other modes it sounds quite good.
 
I have a re capped marantz 1150d, by far , the best sounding amp, pre amp-intrgated.i also have (had)a sansui 8080db, marantz 2230 and 2240, and a Pioneer sa 9500 mk.2,, just sold..i did purchase a Cambridge Azure 551p.i just find the Marantz phono stages far superior, with the Pioneer in second..the 1150d has superior damp and slew rates, presenting the best vinyl playback. I have rega, denon, and technics decks.the 551p proved a real improvement over the big Sansui, evening out the spitty treble, and fattening the bass. The 8080db was in good order, being serviced, I since sold it.
 
Are you asking about the phono preamp (which is actually a pre-preamp, since its output is still fed to the preamp section of your preamp receiver) being better, or the whole thing? If the former, it's pretty easy to test, just connect the tape output from one of the external preamps to an aux in on your receiver and see if you can hear a difference (better in a blind test, if you can get someone to help you).

If you're talking about the entire preamp, I don't see the advantage of connecting it in-line with a receiver, since you'd still be running the output of the external preamp into the receiver's built-in preamp.
 
Separates will always be better than a receiver- with that being said, if you look at the pre in a receiver vs a "pre amp", the pre amp design is much more "robust" vs the pre found in a receiver- this of course makes a big difference on what your choices are for the tuneability of a stand alone pre amp vs a pre in a receiver. The pre in most receivers simply provide adjustment for treble/bass , treble/mid/bass and possibly the addition of a filter or two. A stand alone high end pre can and will offer many more "bells" and "whistles" and generally be quieter.
 
welll clearly you are into the receiver 'thing'
Frankly I haven't used mine in 35 Years :)
Most Any moderne design amplifier simply has No need for a preamp..having more than adequate input sensitivity.
Only phono needs a booster and there are Many absolutely Exquisite sounding/performing Bespoke Phono pre's and IMO damned few are vintage.
Of course 'no pre' usually eliminates Tone controls.
A good thing imo, but some cling to them.
Just my 2 cents.
 
The vintage phono stages tend to be pretty good since they were created when vinyl was the dominate medium for music. If the phono stages you have work well with the cartridges you intend to use, you might be set unless there is something you don't like about the sound you get now.

Personally, I hear greater differences in changing cartridges and speakers than in changing phono stages. Also, the differences in phono stages tend to be subtle. Check this out for an example:

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/five-phono-preamplifiers-compared-you-be-judge

One of these five files comes from a six figure system. There are differences in the sound, but diminishing returns sets in quickly.
 
Isn't it the other way around. If you have a medium powered receiver but are happy w/ reception and all other funtions and happens to have pre /outs then you add a power amplifier. I have a Yamaha RX-V665 rated @90 wpc and I could not air it out w/o clipping. For normal listening levels it was just ok and even in direct mode stereo not much better. Then talking to some folks who said add an amp which I did and it made all the difference in world for quite som time until I went full 2-channel hybrid w/ still using all the sources of the avr/receiver.
 
I prefer using a tube phono so when I rotate a ss receiver into the mix I typically use the phono of my Dynaco Super PAS 3 connected to the tape monitor of the receiver. But other than that I prefer to use the entire receiver and add more cables or disrupt what I believe to be the natural flow of the receiver.
 
I've learned that in general, listening to big A$$ 4 ohm speakers, that separates work best for me. I'm sure there are exceptions (such as a Pioneer SX 1250, or a Marantz 2325), but they are extremely expensive too! And I like being able to mix and match. It is amazing what a difference it can make.
 
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