Stanton 681EEE with Jico Shibata vs. Ortofon MM?

Kuja

Active Member
Hello! :)

Did anybody here compare Ortofon MM cartridges (let's say... 2M, Super OM, 5xx/Vinyl Master...)
with the Stanton 681EEE with a Jico Shibata stylus?

My old 681EEE with the original stylus was sitting in a drawer for some 30 years.

I dug it out and mounted it on a Technics SL-151 MkII Quartz with a SME 3009 series II improved (fixed headshell).

It sounded very bad - heavy one-note massive bass, no "air".
Stereo image became almost mono - it collapsed and was stuffed into a narrow tunnel between the speakers.
The sound was very tiring - I had a feeling of discomfort in my ears, similar to blocked ears due to the airplane air pressure.

Ortofon Super OM 30 on Thorens TD-126 MkI with SME 3009 s2imp sounds waaaaay better - spacious, precise, liquid, etc.

I know that the original EEE stylus is very old and that the suspension is deteriorated, but I'm not sure what will I get if I order the Jico Shibata.

I'm using Ortofon MMs almost exclusively,
so they are my personal reference
and I would like to know how 681 with Jico Shibata would sound compared to them.

Thanks in advance! :)
 
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i don't have an answer for your question but i was thinking that you might try getting a jico .3x.7 elliptical for $40 as a way of testing your 681. that's a lot easier to swallow than $180 if you're not happy with it. (my 681 certainly sounds better than what you describe) if you find that it has the potential you're looking for you can always get the shibata. as far as aftermarket stylus go jico is as consistent as you'll find
 
I don't know about the Jico Shibata stylus but I have an 681 and two genuine shibata styli (EE-S and EEE-S). I also have an OM20.

I have used them (and others) on SL1210MkII as well as an SL-1310MkII, a Thorens TD160, and a Luxman PD-131 with a Denon DA-401 tonearm.

The 681EEE-S gives out a very detailed although punchy sound. Nice for Jazz and Rock. The OM20 (which btw puts OM10 to shame) is even more detailed, airy and sweet. Almost sounds like an MC (like MC20, MC25 from Ortofon). I like it more with classical and acoustic music. It's not bad with Rock and Jazz but it steals a bit of the punch from the music.

If I could give you three separate directions, Stanton 681EEE-S is the heavy sounded one, Ortofon OM20 the sweet one and Shure M97 is the surgically clean sounded one. They are all good imho; just each on their own path and each can be satisfying depending on type of music and recording.
 
The Jico is not equal to or better than a genuine Stanton or Pickering. Ortofon OM outperforms 2M cartridges from OM 20 upwards. I like both cartridges. But Ortofon has genuine styli available, and Jico styli for the Ortofon OM are good quality and better than their Stanton or Pickering tips.
 
Thank you all! :)

Why do you think that Stanton Jico Shibata is not that good?

I'm not really into buying an original NOS vintage Stanton stylus, since I doubt that its suspension will be OK after 30 years.
Mine could be the proof of that, since I don't know what else could be wrong with it (I have checked the tip under the microscope).
 
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I have no problem buying original Pickering styli from Vickers in the UK, a very reputable dealer who stand behind their product. I've bought several times from them and all their styli are top notch originals. A bit pricey, but the real deal, and they sound amazing. They still have the D625E available for the 681. Lovely stylus.

http://www.pickeringuk.com/styli.html
 
Because Stanton and Pickering upper end styli are not something which have a track record of being well made by any generic maker. They either sound different, voiced different, or track heavier than real originals here. I like Jico styli, on Shure, on Ortofon, on ADC and on Empire. Jico voiced their Shibata for the 780-DQ CD-4 cartridge which is a different inductance than the 680/681/Pickering XV 15. I like the Jico Shibata in the 780-DQ just fine. If they would redo the voicing to be correct tonally in the 680/681/XV 15 I'd recommend it heavily.
 
Thanks!

I'm not into chasing the exact replication of the original Stanton 681 sound.
I just would like to have a cartridge/stylus combination that sounds good to my ears.
My all original 681EEE does not, but maybe there is something wrong with it.


What does voicing of 681 with Jico Shibata exactly sound like? :)

Preferably compared to Ortofon OMs, since they are my present reference.
 
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If I understood correctly, the "safe" NOS option is the elliptical Pickering D625E.

Ok.

But... :)

I would still like to hear about the experiences with Jico Shibata, since it is the more advanced tip.

I hear a lot that it is different from the original Stanton,
but nobody has described WHAT exactly is the difference (in sound quality terms)?

Is it bad sounding, or is it just different? :)

.
 
The Stanton Stereohedron II is the best tip for Stanton MI cartridges like the 681 EEE-S II. (which is Stanton's version of the Line Contact styli) That is what is being compared to. I find the Jico Shibata thinner on midrange and on treble extension and the bass is weaker. Put the Jico Shibatas in the Stanton 780-DQ CD-4 cartridge and it sounds proper. Jico voiced the stylus for a different inductance body. In the 780 CD-4 Quadraphonic cartridge, the Jico performs very well.
 
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The Stanton Stereohedron II is the best tip for Stanton MI cartridges like the 681 EEE-S II. (which is Stanton's version of the Line Contact styli) That is what is being compared to. I find the Jico Shibata thinner on midrange and on treble extension and the bass is weaker. Put the Jico Shibatas in the Stanton 780-DQ CD-4 cartridge and it sounds proper. Jico voiced the stylus for a different inductance body. In the 780 CD-4 Quadraphonic cartridge, the Jico performs very well.

You can compensate for the higher inductance body by reducing capacitance....

Try the Jico stylus with 100pf C load.... it may also require raised R load as CD4 is run at 100k as standard...
 
What is the easiest option for those who lack inputs for extra phono stage into a line input? I think you have the right idea for compensation.
 
And I just did! Picked up an L747S and a D681EEE MkIIS, but supposed to be very low hours.

I don't, that I know of, have experience with the Jico high end styli for Stantons/Pickering. I do have an aftermarket stylus for the XSV 3000 that came on a cart I purchased that is TRULY excellent. I suspect that it's a JICO Shibata, but I have no way to tell. There are no manufacturer's markings on it.

I posted a pic of it up here on AK some time ago to solicit help in identifying it, but that was not a successful mission.

I do believe that unless you are a true stickler, you will be pleased with the Jico Shibata, even if it does sound a little bit different than OEM. If it's your only route to go, you don't have a lot of options anyway. The basic Jicos I have are good, too, though. I do have some of those and I can vouch for them.
I almost bid on the 747s but I didn't cause something just didn't seem rite. Not to rain on your parade but i hope for your sake the 747 is as he the seller described in his add.

good luck.
 
It arrived yesterday and it works just fine. Sounds great! It is a little old looking and the pins were bent a little bit, but easily straightened. I just wish that I'd waited and just picked up the two D74S NOS styli that showed up. That would have been a much better deal for me. I already have more P Mount Stanton/Picking bodies than I know what to do with. I should probably start putting some of them up on eBay.

Do you really think those two D74S were NOS I never saw any Stanton stock packaged the way those were, plus the print on the back was clearly marked D6800EE.
 
"I find the Jico Shibata thinner on midrange and on treble extension and the bass is weaker. " I find it to be quite detailed but light in the mids & lower frequencies. Still, quite nice in its place. Can not compare head to head vs the Ortofon and it wouldn't matter anyway as the results on your system would differ from mine. I also can not be sure mine is set up dead nuts perfect.
 
Thank you all! :)

Why do you think that Stanton Jico Shibata is not that good?

I have a Stanton 680EE with JICO Shibata. I'm not a fan of it. I find it a bit harsh on the high end and slightly fatiguing on my SL1200Mk2 w/ modified arm (cardis wire, damped w/ upgraded RCA leads). It was ok on my SL1900 w/ stock arm. I have maybe 10 hours on the stylus, I bought it 4 or 5 years back.

I use and prefer the Shure M91ED w/ JICO SAS. It is warmer with smooth liquid highs on the SL1200Mk2.
 
I have a Stanton 680EE with JICO Shibata. I'm not a fan of it. I find it a bit harsh on the high end and slightly fatiguing on my SL1200Mk2 w/ modified arm (cardis wire, damped w/ upgraded RCA leads). It was ok on my SL1900 w/ stock arm. I have maybe 10 hours on the stylus, I bought it 4 or 5 years back.

I use and prefer the Shure M91ED w/ JICO SAS. It is warmer with smooth liquid highs on the SL1200Mk2.

From one RUSH nut to another ;)

I have a Shure V15 and the Jico SAS. I like it. I have yet to do multiple back to back comparisons.. It certainly picks out the dirt embedded in the groves much more than my 91ED and generic stylus.

So, my question.

I have a Stanton 780 Cartridge. The DQ stylus is kaput. I need another
Equipment: Sl-1700 MK2 bone stock, and a Yamaha PX-3 Tangential tracker. Both have "standard" removable head-shells, and why I selected the PX3.
My amps are Pioneer, a SA-6800, fully recapped, and with modern replacement low noise op Amps.
I also have a SA-9500, with which I can adjust gain and cartridge loading loading. The 9500 is original

As I can control Cap loading, would I be better served with a jico SAS; a Stanton NOS or a aftermarket.

(I do have a nice stack of Quad LP's and am investigation the Aus manufactured decoder..)

Suggestions?
 
I'm limited to my experience with my set up.

My buddy has an SL1810, Not Mk2. That is fairly close to your SL1700Mk2, just a fully manual version of it, without QuartzLock and with a black finish.

I tuned and set up that table. We ran a few carts on it. Much to our surprise, the favorite was a M91ED with the $14 EVG stylus. This is with stock wiring and no mods to the arm. We ran a M91ED w/ SAS but as I said, surprisingly it sounded better with the M91/EVG combo. To both of us. Long after I fell in love with the SAS on my modded SL1200Mk2. At the time I was likely running my Luxman R-102 receiver. I'm sure we tried the 680/ Shabita on that set up but were unimpressed.

With the Quads, you will need a smaller diamond and a cantilever that can transmit the high frequencies. That was what the Shabita was originally designed for. I believe, but could be wrong, that the SAS will also work for this but I'd advise checking first.

If you follow the link in my sig, there is a link there to my testing of various carts on my system. That would give you a good idea of the carts I like and why. Then you will have a better understanding of what I look for and if it is the same thing you are looking for.
 
I tuned and set up that table. We ran a few carts on it. Much to our surprise, the favorite was a M91ED with the $14 EVG stylus. This is with stock wiring and no mods to the arm.

This is a pale yellow Stylus? The chap I purchased me SL-1700 MkII from said it was a nice combo; and it certainly is.

Thanks for the input, and thread Hyjack=OFF
 
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