Hanleyster
ambitious but rubbish
Would the M series be the very last?
Just curious if they went out with a bang, or did they sort of go downhill?
Just curious if they went out with a bang, or did they sort of go downhill?
What were the very last a/d/s speakers?
- Thread starter Hanleyster
- Start date
Just found this...not sure how accurate it is. I have the HT400LCR and always figured it was one of the last from the a/d/s line. They sound fantastic.
http://hometheaterreview.com/ads/
http://hometheaterreview.com/ads/
Hanleyster
ambitious but rubbish
I guess if you consider a/d/s to "be" the founder - Then they are actually still making speakers.
He has adapted to today's markets and is now designing small docks and speakers for mobile use.
His company is now called "sound matters".
He has adapted to today's markets and is now designing small docks and speakers for mobile use.
His company is now called "sound matters".
janikphoto
Lunatic Member
Seeing as how the a/d/s car audio line was carried on through the Orion manufacturing plant in the late 1990's, I would've assumed the last pieces of a/d/s gear were car audio related. However, that link mentioning a 2007-released bookshelf speaker has to be the winner.
I wonder on the 2007 date. My HT400LCRs are date stamped 2002 and I have a hard time believing those speakers were available for more than a year or two - could be wrong. Either way, in 2002 they could still be the last a/d/s produced.
it's still "a/d/s/"
and much of the speculation here was pretty far off the mark.
2004 was the last full active year for a/d/s/ speaker or electronics production and IIRC the remaining inventory was sold off completely before the end of 2005.
Mobile power amps were disco'd in 2004. The HT300 home/AV speaker was also disco'd at that point, the HT400LCR stayed around a little longer due to being a much better selling SKU (relatively speaking).
Looks like the last *new* model may have been the C62ic "stereo" in-ceiling speaker that was added to the architectural line in early 2005 though I saw notes on TOTL mobile speakers too, but as I recall we already had the cs and ix series shipping at that point and nothing else came after that for mobile.
There were also all-weather speakers in plastic housings (5.25" and 6.5" models) but not sure if those were launched at the same time as the C62ic, or before/after. They were voiced to compliment other a/d/s/ stuff but more of a vendor design than in-house; the original engineering team from Phoenix was long gone by then. Having said that, these may not have sounded as fabulous as the L210/L310 (which were still around & stayed in the lineup til the end) but they were way better at surviving typical outdoor semi-abusive use.
The product we featured at CES in Jan 2005 was an HT-series mini-tower in silver brushed aluminum that was being proposed as a free-standing equivalent to the HT800iw in-walls and that could be wall-mounted or used with proprietary stands. Those were built using HT800iw parts and locally machined cabinets & grills, and never went to production.
John
and much of the speculation here was pretty far off the mark.
2004 was the last full active year for a/d/s/ speaker or electronics production and IIRC the remaining inventory was sold off completely before the end of 2005.
Mobile power amps were disco'd in 2004. The HT300 home/AV speaker was also disco'd at that point, the HT400LCR stayed around a little longer due to being a much better selling SKU (relatively speaking).
Looks like the last *new* model may have been the C62ic "stereo" in-ceiling speaker that was added to the architectural line in early 2005 though I saw notes on TOTL mobile speakers too, but as I recall we already had the cs and ix series shipping at that point and nothing else came after that for mobile.
There were also all-weather speakers in plastic housings (5.25" and 6.5" models) but not sure if those were launched at the same time as the C62ic, or before/after. They were voiced to compliment other a/d/s/ stuff but more of a vendor design than in-house; the original engineering team from Phoenix was long gone by then. Having said that, these may not have sounded as fabulous as the L210/L310 (which were still around & stayed in the lineup til the end) but they were way better at surviving typical outdoor semi-abusive use.
The product we featured at CES in Jan 2005 was an HT-series mini-tower in silver brushed aluminum that was being proposed as a free-standing equivalent to the HT800iw in-walls and that could be wall-mounted or used with proprietary stands. Those were built using HT800iw parts and locally machined cabinets & grills, and never went to production.
John
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You are pretty much on target with the HT400LCR, but conversely almost everything on that linked page is completely wrong.
John
John
jimdabomb
Active Member
Kind of ironic.
jdmccall
Super Member
I was following a/d/s/ pretty closely from 2004-2006, the period during which I bought my HT series speakers (3 HT400LCR's and 5 HT300's). I recall at that time they were already under the wing of Directed Electronics. The HT speakers were certainly not the best sounding a/d/s/ speakers ever made, but they were AFAIK, the last serious design effort. And they were built like tanks!
Correct. We purchased ADST at the end of 2000. By 2004 the end was in sight, as the global market for these products essentially collapsed. I don't believe there was any product left by 2006 but I may be off a year - only had time to skim some notes in an archived folder.
While the HT-series may not quite measure up to legacy systems like the L1290/1590/1230/1530 et. al., they are very good speakers. The polymer domes and smaller mid/woofers tend towards a smoother delivery IMO but they are quite competent for A/V applications as well as 2-channel provided subwoofer support is included.
I've always maintained that you can throw an HT300 out the window of your car on the freeway, and all that will happen is there will be a dent in the road and the speaker will still work. Did you know that these are held together by steel end plates inside the rubber moldings, with welded flanges that are then tensioned end-to-end by a very healthy steel turnbuckle? Incredibly strong!
I've got a cutaway view of that assembly somewhere that I'll post if I can find it.
John
While the HT-series may not quite measure up to legacy systems like the L1290/1590/1230/1530 et. al., they are very good speakers. The polymer domes and smaller mid/woofers tend towards a smoother delivery IMO but they are quite competent for A/V applications as well as 2-channel provided subwoofer support is included.
I've always maintained that you can throw an HT300 out the window of your car on the freeway, and all that will happen is there will be a dent in the road and the speaker will still work. Did you know that these are held together by steel end plates inside the rubber moldings, with welded flanges that are then tensioned end-to-end by a very healthy steel turnbuckle? Incredibly strong!
I've got a cutaway view of that assembly somewhere that I'll post if I can find it.
John
jdmccall
Super Member
I'd love seeing that cut-away! I've been tempted to disassemble my 5th (spare) HT300 just out of curiosity, to see how these things are made. They really are an interesting design. I love the solidity and heft. My only concern is the rubber endcaps. I hope the rubber does not deteriorate. I've considered armour-all but my oldest ones are about ten years old now and so far they still look good just wiping them with a damp cloth once in awhile.
An interesting aside (to me at least): When I put a pair of HT300's in the rear corners of my HT room for surround use, my receiver always sets them up as large speakers! Pretty amazing bass from a 5.25" "woofer" in a relatively small enclosure. The slow roll-off coupled with some corner gain really makes them sound much bigger than they are. :thmbsp:
An interesting aside (to me at least): When I put a pair of HT300's in the rear corners of my HT room for surround use, my receiver always sets them up as large speakers! Pretty amazing bass from a 5.25" "woofer" in a relatively small enclosure. The slow roll-off coupled with some corner gain really makes them sound much bigger than they are. :thmbsp:
Here's an exploded view from a static pdf, and another one grabbed from Solidworks where you can see the assembly, rotate it etc.
I'd suggest only using a damp towel to keep the rubber ends clean. If they don't smell like bicycle tire inner tubes and turn white over time I wouldn't have any concerns about it breaking down. None of mine have had any issues at all. The early ones assembled in US were built using a completely different rubber material that outgassed endlessly, and the white stuff would keep coming back no matter how many times you cleaned it.
John
I'd suggest only using a damp towel to keep the rubber ends clean. If they don't smell like bicycle tire inner tubes and turn white over time I wouldn't have any concerns about it breaking down. None of mine have had any issues at all. The early ones assembled in US were built using a completely different rubber material that outgassed endlessly, and the white stuff would keep coming back no matter how many times you cleaned it.
John
Attachments
jdmccall
Super Member
Fascinating! So...is the turnbuckle basically what's holding the whole assembly together? I don't think there's any exposed fasteners on the back and only the individual speaker baffles interlocking on the front.
Back when, after I saw the '800 in-wall, I would regularly scour the internet for a floor-standing version. Of course there was none to be found. I wish they'd have built a few! Maybe move the tweeter closer to the top, but use the same design as the HT300 and 400; put some nice adjustable outriggers on the bottom...keep the height around three feet. It probably would have weighed 120 pounds!
Back when, after I saw the '800 in-wall, I would regularly scour the internet for a floor-standing version. Of course there was none to be found. I wish they'd have built a few! Maybe move the tweeter closer to the top, but use the same design as the HT300 and 400; put some nice adjustable outriggers on the bottom...keep the height around three feet. It probably would have weighed 120 pounds!
IIRC, the assembly process was to slot the sides and rear panels together, then add the rubber tops & bottoms with embedded steel plates & the welded-on attachment points for the turnbuckle. I assume there was a jig of some kind to ensure the front edges of the side extrusions were located correctly so that the injection-molded drivers would line up during final assembly (the front faceplate is made up of the driver parts, which overlap and lock to each other and have gasketed joins).
Once that assembly was arranged that way, they'd add the turnbuckle, tension it, and then use epoxy to seal & permanently join the interior seams where the sides meet the rear panel.
When the epoxy had set, the crossover went in (I forget how it mounts but assembly would have been thru the front) and then the drivers were installed. There are gaskets on the flanges of the cabinet where those plastic panels install, to ensure the whole thing stayed air-tight. But, even with the drivers removed the rest of the cabinet is remarkably solid.
We built 4 pcs. of the HT800 tower, see pic below. These were machined as one-offs for CES but would have used extruded sides and rear panel in production as the 300/400LCR did. The end pieces were done in machined aluminum but likely would have been cast for production, and the rubber encasement was not going to be retained - WAF issues for something as large as these were.
It used the stock HT800iw drivers with four 5.25", two of which were woofers and the other two mid/woofers (2.5-way design) plus the single dome tweeter. The two mid/woofers and tweeter were arranged in d'Appolito configuration, same as the in-wall 400/800 models. The crossover was custom-tweaked by our acoustics guy to reflect the sealed cabinet application of these vs. the original wall-mounted open baffle in-wall application. We kept the three position tweeter-level switch.
I wish I could use the whole LCR config but I have an LED projector TV and there's not enough room on the media stand for the massive 800 to fit as a center channel. I have a stock 400LCR there instead (hard to see in the picture but it's on the first shelf down, towards the right side - can't center it unless I get rid of a couple of components), and the L/R 800's are on 18" Bell'o stands which lines them up visually with the Sony TV. Works great for A/V as well as 2-channel though at some point I'd love to move to a wall-mounted flat screen and use the 3rd 800 as a wall-mounted center. I suspect the current setup is better for 2-channel though, as the stand-mounted 800's are located well off the wall and have decent separation for the size of that end of the room. Wall-mounting them might not work as well for music.
John
Once that assembly was arranged that way, they'd add the turnbuckle, tension it, and then use epoxy to seal & permanently join the interior seams where the sides meet the rear panel.
When the epoxy had set, the crossover went in (I forget how it mounts but assembly would have been thru the front) and then the drivers were installed. There are gaskets on the flanges of the cabinet where those plastic panels install, to ensure the whole thing stayed air-tight. But, even with the drivers removed the rest of the cabinet is remarkably solid.
We built 4 pcs. of the HT800 tower, see pic below. These were machined as one-offs for CES but would have used extruded sides and rear panel in production as the 300/400LCR did. The end pieces were done in machined aluminum but likely would have been cast for production, and the rubber encasement was not going to be retained - WAF issues for something as large as these were.
It used the stock HT800iw drivers with four 5.25", two of which were woofers and the other two mid/woofers (2.5-way design) plus the single dome tweeter. The two mid/woofers and tweeter were arranged in d'Appolito configuration, same as the in-wall 400/800 models. The crossover was custom-tweaked by our acoustics guy to reflect the sealed cabinet application of these vs. the original wall-mounted open baffle in-wall application. We kept the three position tweeter-level switch.
I wish I could use the whole LCR config but I have an LED projector TV and there's not enough room on the media stand for the massive 800 to fit as a center channel. I have a stock 400LCR there instead (hard to see in the picture but it's on the first shelf down, towards the right side - can't center it unless I get rid of a couple of components), and the L/R 800's are on 18" Bell'o stands which lines them up visually with the Sony TV. Works great for A/V as well as 2-channel though at some point I'd love to move to a wall-mounted flat screen and use the 3rd 800 as a wall-mounted center. I suspect the current setup is better for 2-channel though, as the stand-mounted 800's are located well off the wall and have decent separation for the size of that end of the room. Wall-mounting them might not work as well for music.
John
Brian
An Old Geezer
Here's an exploded view from a static pdf, and another one grabbed from Solidworks where you can see the assembly, rotate it etc.
I'd suggest only using a damp towel to keep the rubber ends clean. If they don't smell like bicycle tire inner tubes and turn white over time I wouldn't have any concerns about it breaking down. None of mine have had any issues at all. The early ones assembled in US were built using a completely different rubber material that outgassed endlessly, and the white stuff would keep coming back no matter how many times you cleaned it.
John
This has my attention. What and what was the goal, purpose and thinking behind this cabinet structure. Seems like a somewhat complex and costly design and execution.
I ain't never getting rid of my 1980 L300s I bought new. Owned them longer than I have known my wife of 33 years.
Wasn't around during the design phase, though I was when we put these back into production. The only changes though were to get the correct rubber compound for the end so it didn't stink & turn white like the original production parts did. So, I don't know the story behind the design... but, it clearly has some benefits:
1) Extremely inert and non-resonant. You just have to pick one up and tap on it to realize how dead this cabinet is acoustically. If it has any weakness in that area, it's the all-plastic fascia that's created from the interlocking driver panels but even those have plenty of structure to them. They fit tightly together, to the cabinet, and use of foam sealing strips makes that assembled panel pretty inert as well.
2) With the rubber ends, any concerns about the speakers walking around or being anything less than 100% anchored to the surface they're sitting on are eliminated. These stay put and they don't move at all under any level of signal being drive through them.
3) The 400LCR was primarily designed for horizontal placement as a center channel. Although they did offer an optional wood+metal cradle to place the speaker on, a lot of the time these were placed directly on a surface and again the rubber prevents them moving around or damaging the surface though you do have to do something to control rocking on the curved edges. I have mine that way (I have some cradles but the assembly is too tall for my A/V stand) with a small rubber cork under the center to keep the speaker from rolling at all.
4) I think the turnbuckle was an outside the box solution for how to assemble the cabinet w/o any external fasteners other than the screws recessed into the driver panels, which hide under the grills. It does a really good job of holding the cabinet in a rigid assembly and other than the added weight and some minor loss of airspace, seems like an effective solution to me.
It's definitely different than any other speakers I've seen. Not everyone loves it esp. cosmetically but functionally the design does work really well.
John
1) Extremely inert and non-resonant. You just have to pick one up and tap on it to realize how dead this cabinet is acoustically. If it has any weakness in that area, it's the all-plastic fascia that's created from the interlocking driver panels but even those have plenty of structure to them. They fit tightly together, to the cabinet, and use of foam sealing strips makes that assembled panel pretty inert as well.
2) With the rubber ends, any concerns about the speakers walking around or being anything less than 100% anchored to the surface they're sitting on are eliminated. These stay put and they don't move at all under any level of signal being drive through them.
3) The 400LCR was primarily designed for horizontal placement as a center channel. Although they did offer an optional wood+metal cradle to place the speaker on, a lot of the time these were placed directly on a surface and again the rubber prevents them moving around or damaging the surface though you do have to do something to control rocking on the curved edges. I have mine that way (I have some cradles but the assembly is too tall for my A/V stand) with a small rubber cork under the center to keep the speaker from rolling at all.
4) I think the turnbuckle was an outside the box solution for how to assemble the cabinet w/o any external fasteners other than the screws recessed into the driver panels, which hide under the grills. It does a really good job of holding the cabinet in a rigid assembly and other than the added weight and some minor loss of airspace, seems like an effective solution to me.
It's definitely different than any other speakers I've seen. Not everyone loves it esp. cosmetically but functionally the design does work really well.
John
jdmccall
Super Member
I think they look great! I would guess most men would like the looks; most women maybe not. Remember back when these came out, there were very few affordable speakers with curved surfaces so that was kind of novel. The rubber ends may be the sticking point, looks-wise, for some folks though. I like 'em if they're kept looking clean and black but otherwise they can look a little...industrial. As for the grills, I've always been a sucker for metal grills. Perforated or mesh, whatever...I love 'em! They're kid, cat and stain proof! And I love the looks!
I didn't know any of this when I bought my 400LCRs last year. Just thought they were cool looking and decent sounding. The a/d/s nameplate was what made me part with my hard earned cash, not the sound, as the guy I bought them from had em hooked to an Onkyo AVR that left much to be desired. I've got 140 watts pumping though them with a 10inch sub handling the low range and they are magnificent. I'll probably be buried with them.
