StylinLP New Wharfedale w90 speaker restore thread

StylinLP

Active Member
Hey, guess what! I just picked up a pair of Wharfedale w90 speakers for $360 locally! They are in good shape. The previous owner "Cleaned them up" with that restore MiniWax stuff. So I will need to strip them down and restore the woof. He did a poor job. Didnt' get the corners. But the grill cloth is in perfect shape! We played them at his place and I "THINK" i heard sound coming out of all the speakers. I wasnt 100% because I had no idea how many drivers where inside.

So I got them home and opened them up and put a multimeter to them. One of the cabinets upper cavity was glued at the middle blocks. Omg I almost had to destroy the rear of the cabinets to get that upper cavity back plate off. What a nightmare. Had to use a chisel.

My multimeter readings on the wires and on the driver basket binding posts where kind of all over the place but this is what I finally came up with. Hope I used my multimeter correctly and measured right. I tried for 20 min...

6 ohm tweeters
3 ohms midrange
2 ohm woofers.

As you can see, these wharfedales have 2 tweeters, 2 midrange and 2 woofers per speaker. Also, Im not sure what is Alnico or not. Are those woofers Alnico? All drivers show a date of 3/63. So that's good I think.

Also, I lucked out! The previous owner bought these from a professor at the Univiersity of New Mexico and he had no idea the speaker stands were in one of the cabinets! I was shocked to see them. Wow.
 

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More photo's of the tweeters and midrange drivers

I really got lucky. All the drivers are in perfect condition. The cones and surrounds are flawless. Whew. I had a pair of tweeters that were rotten on my pair of w60b speakers. Then one of them blew. Im still in the market for 1 4.5" super tweeter 3 tweeter.
 

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Photo's of my crossovers. Anyone have any idea what exact model Wharfedale w90 speakers I have? They just say w90 on the rear panels.

Also, what are these caps? 50v each but does it say 8uf and 24uf?
 

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Questions:
Are all the drivers Alnico? Are these speakers truely w90a?
Capacitors:
I didn't want to do the NOS Russian thing that most you guys did. I rather just buy new modern day equilivent like Mundorf Copper paper and oil? Any good suggestions that will not cost more than a few hundred dollars?
Trim Pots:
See how corroded they are? What should I soak them in and how long?
 
I'm confused, it's obvious that these speakers were never opened and modified. That those are the original drivers. I thought people on here said that the wharfedale w60 speakers had all alnico drivers. Is my mid and tweeters alnico at least?
 
They look like ceramics to me. The controls have cadium dust and it is really nasty stuff. Keep covered, use gloves and a mask when you touch them.

Interesting the legs were inside the cabinet, I wonder why. Does not make sense someone would take all that trouble to put them in there.

Do not lose sleep over the magnet structure. Biggs seemed to keep the voicing consistent. They look really great. With all this talk about W90s of late, I am drooling.
 
That's weird to see ceramic magnets on such early W90's. The ones with alnico magnets didn't use any kind of baffle up top. They free-air-mounted them, so the area up top is open. Just the drivers suspended on metal rods/bolts and some grillcloth and trim over that. Yours might be the first I've seen with that cab/grill style that also came with ceramic mids and tweets. Must be a VERY-early ceramic version. Were they manufactured/bought in the US? Mine had a date on the left woofer that matched the date in the upper compartment. 9/'63. And mine are all-alnico, so it's odd to see yours like that, but they look factory-stock though.

Mine are the dual 3-way type as far as I can tell, unless I'm missing something (And the July '63 issue of Hi-Fi/Stereo Review has the review for that original alnico version). But I just looked through the grill of one of mine, and there are no mini-baffles on the mids like with yours (I can see the alnico magnet structures on the mids if I shine the light a certain way... The backs of your mids are obscured by the mini-baffles). That seems to be an early W90B, I'm guessing. They have the one port/one rear vent configuration, right? Yours are much too-early for W90C's, so that narrows it down. I bet you'll like those A LOT, if you can put some tubes on them or tubey solid-state. The W90 is no joke. Even the W90D gets high marks. Pair them with a Fisher tube amp or receiver, and you'll be in synergy heaven. Aren't those cabs beautiful? I love that style. Same grill as mine (But mine don't have a rear vent though... Two front ports and two sand-filled rear panels... This model had more revisions than Carter had little pills).
 
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They look like ceramics to me. The controls have cadium dust and it is really nasty stuff. Keep covered, use gloves and a mask when you touch them.

Interesting the legs were inside the cabinet, I wonder why. Does not make sense someone would take all that trouble to put them in there.

Do not lose sleep over the magnet structure. Biggs seemed to keep the voicing consistent. They look really great. With all this talk about W90s of late, I am drooling.

I have no doubt you would love them. The earliest ones were dual 3-ways, basically a 3-way stereo pair in a single cab. The dual midwoofer/dual tweeter pairs are quite a thing, especially when you're listening to wide-panned recordings. But it's more than that. They do wonders with analog 16 and 24-channel multi-tracked stuff. And that dual 12" woofer section has that 'big speaker' sound. Nothing like the power and weight of two 12's, even laid-back ones. Great leading edge when they're operating within their sweet spot.

One thing about W90's, they are the epitome of smooth, same as the W70's. Smooth, open, and very-bloomy (More-neutral-sounding and not quite as lush-sounding than my alnico W60's... I imagine the W70's being somewhere in between... For '70's music, I would choose the W90's for this reason... The W60's are perfectly-suited for early to mid '60's music and earlier stuff). But ALL the old Wharfies have a way with seemingly-average-music, like the type you'd find on classic-rock/oldies collections. Masters of the mundane, I always say, and this is especially-true with the W90 model. For example, if I wanted to play KISS, I would choose the W90's. They nail '70's classic-rock guitars. I've been playing for 30 years, and the W90's have it DOWN. The 5.25" mids and that alnico W12 on the left side, they do the heavy lifting with guitar stuff. JAZZ guitar is so good, it's freaky.

The way the W90's make horn instruments sound is like no speaker I've ever heard, especially doubled horns (STEREO horns &/or multiple horns all playing the same notes, which creates a chorusing effect... Works really well with wide-panned stereo horn sections because of those Super 3's on the outside left/right). That dual-mid/dual-tweeter section, on certain recordings, can seem like a front-firing 4ch system. But they are VERY-sensitive to proper placement. They simply MUST be equal distance from the listening spot. With all those drivers (and the dual 3-way thing), that part is vital. But when you get it right, they let you know. The W90's put out one awesome soundstage when given a chance. Seamless integration between woof, midwoof, and tweet. And the dual Super 3's and dual mids are impedance-matched pairs. I've seen driver sets from parted-out W90's, and the impedance values were identical for each pair.

I haven't heard mine in nearly two weeks, and I'm starting to go a little batty (You know my complicated living situation at the moment... As soon as I'm resettled, they will get lots of play). I agree about the magnet structure. Like you said, the sound-signature is the same for their ceramic cone-drivers. I've heard recordings of the ceramic Super 3 in action, and it sure sounds the same to me. I imagine it also inherited the need to be at ear-level. Too-low, and the highs just don't reach their intended target. But at just the right height, with no obstackables between listener and speaker, the highs are wonderful. They talk about this in detail in that review, how the improvement with the stands was "almost magical" compared to without them. I have mine on 10" stands, which puts mine right at eye-level. Some may be fine with the height of the stands alone (4", I think), but the key is getting the tweeters where they should be, like with most speakers.
 
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Ah, yes... Finally getting a little time with my W90's (They're like that first drink when you fall off the wagon). The title track from Herbie Mann's "Push Push" is playing now. This sort of thing is their forte. The W90's, for such old speakers, have very-good PRAT. And you can maximize this by keeping the area in front and around the woofers clear, same as the top section. This will enhance their low-frequency performance at low volume levels. They don't like a cluttered room. Too much clutter, and the low frequency response goes to total doo doo. I know this.

So much potential in this model. Depending on the level of support it's given, it can either be an okay-sounding speaker or a jaw-dropper. The Columbia Contemporary Jazz Masters CD of Herbie Hancock's "Headhunters" is playing right now, another that seems custom-tailored to the W90. They're like large British studio monitors from the early '60's when they're up on a the 10" stands I use, the way they look and also the way they sound. You can put them pretty-far apart, just as long as both speakers are equal distance from your listening spot.

I just wanna' swim in this sound... (I haven't played these speakers in almost two weeks, so I'm a might giddy...It's been quite a while since I played "Headhunters"... It's in my top five of all time). For hardcore music-lovers, the W90 is a first-class contender... ("Hocus Pocus" by Focus is another good one for W90's).

Well, that was fun... Got a good hour or so... I opened up the space a bit more today, removed a few things... That really seems to be the key to unlocking the bass response at low levels.

By the way, those cabs look beautiful. This type is my favorite cab-style for this model. Even with the wood trim running right over the center of the mids and tweeters, it somehow doesn't screw up the imaging. Seeing one of them next to a W60C (which is AR3-sized) really drives home just how big the W90's are. We're talking over 32" high, about 28" wide, and over 13" deep, with a total of six drivers including two 12" woofers.
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My W90's have the darker, walnut veneer... Yours look like mahogany.
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Gang-Twanger thank you for all the feedback. If it wasn't for you these kind of speakers would not be getting the attention they deserve. Right now Im trying to finish up my Atari 2600 Heacy Sixer restoration project and then will focus on restoring these Wharfedale w90's. Had a few questions on your thoughts on my choices.

I already decided to buy modern paper in oil caps from Mundorf. If I can figure out which combination is best for the values I need.

I already know I need to clean those pots up. I figured I would just let them soak for a few days in mineral spirits? Then take a tooth brush to them?

I want to upgrade and replace the speaker binding post, hookup wire and terminal strip...Parts Connexion sells 100% pure copper versions of all that. I can get Connex or Kimber Cable pure oxygen freee 99.999% wire thats teflon coated. whould I use 18awg or 20awg?

Also, they sell Terminal "posts" or "slots" 100% pure copper. On a teflon or glass base. I saw that I will not be able to solder the hookup wires direct to a terminal strip because the only way to remove the back panel to the upper compartment is to unclip the internal hookup wires. So they got to be removable...

Also, they sell all sorts of binding speaker posts. I woudl perfer 100% copper but that is a lot of money, the cheap high quality way to go that I have found is 100% solid Brass thats been gold platted.
 
You might want to try those spade things for the W90's. They sell similar ones for Fisher tube receivers. I still need to do mine, but I've been wrapped up in other things. As far as the Mundorfs go, I would probably avoid the Silver in oil ones, or whatever is supposed to be the bright one. You don't want to be trying to add anything. You want warm, open, and musical. Their best oil-type cap is expensive though. I almost bought Rike paper-in-oils for mine, but they would have cost a fortune, which is why I was glad when a fellow AK'er helped me find some old ones. Basically, you're looking for the kind of open, airy, musical sound that the best of the old PCB-type ones (That's the sound they have when used on the tone pot of an electric guitar, and it's just the kind of sound you want, so if you're looking to go with modern caps like Mundorfs, then I would suggest that you choose the one they make that's closest to that (tonally-speaking). Jupiter makes some nice beeswax caps. Not oil, but still an old-school design that would probably work very-well in some old Wharfedales. And Duelund is probably the best of the modern oil cap makers. Big bucks though.

You might want to contact AK member Crestwood23. He has a friend (also a member, I think) whom he helped buy/refurbish a pair of W90's, and his friend used Mundorfs. I remember he spent like $500 on the four caps. Check the Wharfedale Owners thread for his posts, plus he posted a thread called "W90's Incoming" if I'm not mistaken, so you can always do a Google search for that (so you can send him a message).

Listening to mine as I type this. "Across 110th St." soundtrack. Before that, it was "Superfly", and now I'm playing "The Mack". I live for this stuff. There were so many great B-movie soundtracks in the '70's. It was a kind of jazz/funk/classical fusion, similar in many ways to what Deodato was doing back in those days. "Saturday Night Fever" changed all that in '76 though. After that, movie soundtrack music went all-disco-crazy (and later new-wave-crazy and '80's-crazy). But that period from like '68-'75 is loaded with killer soundtracks, from "Bullitt" to on up to "Enter The Dragon" and "Truck Turner". I can't get enough of it.
 
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Augh, why can't I find tabbed barrier strips like the Wharfedale has??? Ive been seaching ebay all day and only found one listed in a UK company. Anyone know where I can source these make of copper?
Any advice on a better method to replace these strips? A better solution of pure copper? It must be able to disconnect so I can get off the back panel when needed. Dont want to be desoldering everytime I want to get inside the cabinet.

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/barri...5522677633D4E4F4E45267573743D3433332D37373526
 
Do you mean to put the crossover connections on the outside or something? Or are you simply looking to replace the closely-spaced terminals on the back?

I imagine either 18ga or 20ga is fine, but I have no idea what the W90's have going on in terms of wire-gauge/terminal gauge. I'm not well-versed on that stuff. I use 16ga speaker cables. Not sure what gauge the internal crossover/speaker wiring is, but I figure it's smaller than 16ga. You're dealing with low wattage speakers, so it doesn't need to be super-heavy-gauge or anything (I assume).
 
Gang-Twanger, my plan is to replace the binding posts, replace the internal hookup wire, replace the capacitors. The list below is what I ordered from Parts Connexion. I hope I dont have trouble fitting the Cardas binding posts.
I wish there was a way simply to just bypass the pots but its too complicated and decided to clean them up. Was the advise to clean them well with Craig Detoxit? Then soak them for hours in 99.999% electronics achohol? THen blast them with Craig Detoxit Lube?
BTW, the Wharfedale W90 has a 8uF and a 24uF capacitor. The Mundorf's below is all I could find to get close.
Also, I coudlnt find a replacement terminal strip. No one sells them. I was hoping to find one made of pure copper. So I decided to sand/grind/clean them up to bare metal then buy those Furutech Disconnect clips which are made of pure copper. At least the Binding posts, hookup wire and disconnect strips are all pure copper. Should sound better than stock.

2x Mundorf Film Cap 2.2uF / 450V, Mcap EVO Oil

2x Mundorf Film Cap 8.2uF / 450V, Mcap EVO Oil

2x Mundorf Film Cap 22uF / 450V, Mcap EVO Oil

JOHNSON Rosin Core, 20 Gram Roll, Each

KIMBER TCSS 19 awg BLACK
KIMBER TCSS 19 awg BLUE
KIMBER TCSS 19 awg RED
KIMBER TCSS 19 awg YELLOW
$1.37 per foot

1x CARDAS CCGR-S - silver/rhodium/gold plated, short (1 set = 1 pair of dual binding posts) SET $68.58

2x FURUTECH F118(G)S10, F187 Series, G, Disconnect, Red, Set/10 $20.80

Total $271.25
 
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Trust me, don't bypass the pots. I really feel they're an essential part of that model. You can raise/lower the woofer-volume with those by lowering/raising both the mid tweeter levels evenly (as if those pots were a reverse volume pot), and this allows you to really tailor the sound. Plus, I have mine both at 3:00, which seems perfect for the music. With the pots all the way up on those, it's just too-lean in the lows for me. 3:00-3:30 is the range I keep coming back to in the end. There are lots of little ways to tune these bad boys to perfectly-suit you (as well as the room).

Worked out some time with mine again today. After going weeks without them, this has been a good couple of days for that. With the space in front cleared-out, the woofers thump nicely at very-comfortable volume levels. Getting my Isaac fix as I type. These speakers are bloody-intoxicating. I just put on my Greenline "Pet Sounds" CD. I listened to A LOT of different versions of it before finally settling on this one, and with Wharfedales, it's the Greenline, hands down (Silky, polished, and musical). Synergy, right?
 
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Trust me, don't bypass the pots. I really feel they're an essential part of that model. You can raise/lower the woofer-volume with those by lowering/raising both the mid tweeter levels evenly (as if those pots were a reverse volume pot), and this allows you to really tailor the sound. Plus, I have mine both at 3:00, which seems perfect for the music. With the pots all the way up on those, it's just too-lean in the lows for me. 3:00-3:30 is the range I keep coming back to in the end. There are lots of little ways to tune these bad boys to perfectly-suit you (as well as the room).

Worked out some time with mine again today. After going weeks without them, this has been a good couple of days for that. With the space in front cleared-out, the woofers thump nicely at very-comfortable volume levels. Getting my Isaac fix as I type. These speakers are bloody-intoxicating. I just put on my Greenline "Pet Sounds" CD. I listened to A LOT of different versions of it before finally settling on this one, and with Wharfedales, it's the Greenline, hands down (Silky, polished, and musical). Synergy, right?

I would argue the pots are a detriment to the sound quality. This is based on many posts I've read where people have bypassed pots on speakers and always noticed an improvement in SQ. As long as the change is reversible, I don't see why not? You would need to figure out the appropriate resistance to put in place of it, but it could improve the sound.
 
I would agree, but I would have to solder in a resister. Try it out. Replace it with another. Try it out. Replace again until im happy. Which, I an willing to do.

But, I'm confused that these pots are part of the cross over design and there is more to it than resistance? They are 50 ohm pots. Is tthis something to take allowances for? It sure would save me a bunch of money if I just use the 8uF capacitor it should I use the 24uF? I think my logical in how these caps work is backwards. Turning the pots all the way to full adds both capacitors in the circuit? Or turning the pot all the way down adds both capacitors?
 
I would argue the pots are a detriment to the sound quality. This is based on many posts I've read where people have bypassed pots on speakers and always noticed an improvement in SQ. As long as the change is reversible, I don't see why not? You would need to figure out the appropriate resistance to put in place of it, but it could improve the sound.

My fear is that they will be too lean. Certainly too lean for my tastes. Those dual mids and dual tweets can really fill a room, especially on the higher settings, but full-on just seems like TOO much. I spent hours and hours trying different settings and looking for that perfect balance of woofers versus mids/tweeters, and in the end, that 3:00-3:15 setting just seems the most-accurate to me (I could maybe widen that to 2:45-3:30, but I can't take it any farther than that in either direction on my room. There's a lowered, exposed support beam that runs across the ceiling, and any upper-bass/lower-mid bloat just sticks out like a sore thumb in here because of it for whatever reason.

Perhaps the recap will change the response of the mids & tweets enough that their levels won't NEED to be as high. Don't know for sure though.
 
My fear is that they will be too lean. Certainly too lean for my tastes. Those dual mids and dual tweets can really fill a room, especially on the higher settings, but full-on just seems like TOO much. I spent hours and hours trying different settings and looking for that perfect balance of woofers versus mids/tweeters, and in the end, that 3:00-3:15 setting just seems the most-accurate to me (I could maybe widen that to 2:45-3:30, but I can't take it any farther than that in either direction on my room. There's a lowered, exposed support beam that runs across the ceiling, and any upper-bass/lower-mid bloat just sticks out like a sore thumb in here because of it for whatever reason.

Perhaps the recap will change the response of the mids & tweets enough that their levels won't NEED to be as high. Don't know for sure though.

What I meant is, you replicate the same setting but using resistors, and theoretically it should improve the sound quality by having resistors there instead of the potentiometers. You lose the functionality of the pots, but if you find the perfect setting and just leave it then they would be kinda useless. Except for potential resale value - but it should be reversible.
 
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