June 2015 article by Art Dudley "How to review Audio Cables". I probably should re-read the entire article to be absolutely sure this statement is correct - but I THINK not once in this roughly three page article is there any mention of : capacitance ,inductance ,resistance or impedance.This must be why high end cables are so special -apparently these electrical parameters can safetly be ignored above a certain price point ?.
Stereophile "How to review audio cables"
- Thread starter stonedeaf
- Start date
My method of cable review and it has NEVER let me down yet:thmbsp:
1. Install first pair audio cables.
2. Listen, make notes about your listening experience, mentally or on paper.
3. Remove first pair audio cables.
4. Install second pair audio cables.
5. Listen, make notes about your listening experience, mentally or on paper.
6. Compare notes and decide for yourself which cable you prefer.
Enjoy the journey
Erik Tracy
Everyone's happy when the wizard walks by
Reason #22 why I should put a sticky reminder on my laptop not to read "I hate stereophile" threads.
I read the article twice. What I liked about it was, Art clearly spelled out his methodology. The fact that he switches out the cables multiple times makes a lot of sense to me, based on my, limited, personal experience listening to cables.
The capacitance, inductance and resistance or impedance of a cable are things that can be empirically measured. With some equipment combinations they may make a significant contribution to the signal transfer between components. With other combinations not so much. I can not recall ever having read that the cable capacitance, inductance and resistance or impedance are the sole criteria for determining the sound of a cable. While it would have been interesting to see the measurements of the cables under review, I am not deeply disappointed that they were not included.
measurments
of the two audio mage -one of the reasons I keep reading and subscribing to Stereophile and tend to let The Absolute Sound lapse now and again is measurements. The amazing obscurity of standard spec's on cables was driven home to me recently when I needed to replace a abused standard DIN/RCA cable for a tonearm. Since I routinely run MM carts which (Grado's excepted) are measurably and audibly effected by capacitance -wanted as low a capacitance as possible. Pretty clearly -there are folks quit willing to sell me what I perceive as VERY expensive cables for this particular purpose. No specs other than length ? Again -capacitance between output of a SUT and input of most MM stages will make a measurable and audible difference ? Stereophile measures both speakers of pairs reviewed -why not cable pairs ?
of the two audio mage -one of the reasons I keep reading and subscribing to Stereophile and tend to let The Absolute Sound lapse now and again is measurements. The amazing obscurity of standard spec's on cables was driven home to me recently when I needed to replace a abused standard DIN/RCA cable for a tonearm. Since I routinely run MM carts which (Grado's excepted) are measurably and audibly effected by capacitance -wanted as low a capacitance as possible. Pretty clearly -there are folks quit willing to sell me what I perceive as VERY expensive cables for this particular purpose. No specs other than length ? Again -capacitance between output of a SUT and input of most MM stages will make a measurable and audible difference ? Stereophile measures both speakers of pairs reviewed -why not cable pairs ?
The perfect testing IC cables has always been at your fingertips if you have a tape monitor loop:
Run the IC you wish to test between the REC OUT and PLAY IN jacks and get a buddy to switch the tape monitor in/out and see if you can hear any difference (or degradation) between the "pure" signal (source) and tape loop (through the cables) for a perfect instantaneous comparision.
It has been long held that any comparative listening test be instantaneous in order to make a comparison reasonably meaningful.
And as far as I am concerned, any so-called "professional" reviewer that doesn't take such basic steps but instead relies upon the utterly flawed "disconnect/reconnect everything then try to hear any difference" isn't worth the paper it's written on.
That is why I no longer read audio trade magazines.
Run the IC you wish to test between the REC OUT and PLAY IN jacks and get a buddy to switch the tape monitor in/out and see if you can hear any difference (or degradation) between the "pure" signal (source) and tape loop (through the cables) for a perfect instantaneous comparision.
It has been long held that any comparative listening test be instantaneous in order to make a comparison reasonably meaningful.
And as far as I am concerned, any so-called "professional" reviewer that doesn't take such basic steps but instead relies upon the utterly flawed "disconnect/reconnect everything then try to hear any difference" isn't worth the paper it's written on.
That is why I no longer read audio trade magazines.
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frankbooth
Super Member
yawn.
Here I thought I would get some actual info...
Here I thought I would get some actual info...
Neither is whining about whining .
Art Dudley and the cheap subscription price are the main reasons I read Stereophile. I like Art's writings and this article was a fun read. The "I think that any 1m interconnect pair that sells for $5000 or more ought to sound amazingly, obviously good and increase the size and functionality of one's penis" line cracked me up and it is so true! At the end of the article Art writes audition as products that you reasonably can. And says the key word is Borrow. My dealer last summer let me take 6 or 7 sets of interconnects to try out in my system so that I could decide what worked best in my system regardless of price or brand name. That's really all you can do to find a product that works for you and your system.
Ok, back to the whining.....
Ok, back to the whining.....
olson_jr
Lunatic Member
I liked that line too!
BobbyBluz
Super Member
I usually make my own interconnects and use 12 gauge zip cord for speaker wire. I've been doing this far to long to waste money when I could be spending it on other things actually worth it. I still have a stash of several hundred feet of original Monster Cable I got for $20 when it was removed from clubs during renovations. Perhaps it's "better" now that it's been aged for 20+ years..
I used to not worry about cables and speaker wires using Sound King 12ga. fine strand for years. But, as my main rig moved up the food chain and I bought gear with greater resolution, I realized I was shortchanging myself. I experimented with many types of cable and plugs as I went down the DIY road finding that indeed different types of wires have a different sound to them. Specs or not, it is my ears that determine whether they are used in my rigs or not. (70% of my cables are DIY) I subscribe to Stereophile and read the articles I find interesting, same with the Absolute Sound. To not keep up on whats new and trending would have cost me a lot of music, and a few pieces of fantastic gear as well. Everyone can enjoy this hobby as they find fit with no fault called by me.
Enjoy your rigs my friends, but don't stifle those who are willing to explore. Closed minds lead to missed oppurtunities in life as well as our hobby. IMHO
Enjoy,
Jim
Enjoy your rigs my friends, but don't stifle those who are willing to explore. Closed minds lead to missed oppurtunities in life as well as our hobby. IMHO
Enjoy,
Jim
Oxidation
One of the things i like about Kimber cable is I've stripped and re-terminated several decades old 4PR (their original multi-strand speaker wire) and the copper still hasn't obviously reacted with whatever they are using as a insulator. The clear zip cord on steroids stuff I've got here is inconsistent - the Mogammi Soundrunner is still looking uncorroded at say 20 ?years out -some of the other clear stuff is pretty green on the unplated conductor and sorta whitish on the plated conductor. I tend to pitch this stuff simply because I don't have confidence in how good of a solder joint this will produce ? Maybe it sounds OK -but ?
Howz your monster look after all this time ?
One of the things i like about Kimber cable is I've stripped and re-terminated several decades old 4PR (their original multi-strand speaker wire) and the copper still hasn't obviously reacted with whatever they are using as a insulator. The clear zip cord on steroids stuff I've got here is inconsistent - the Mogammi Soundrunner is still looking uncorroded at say 20 ?years out -some of the other clear stuff is pretty green on the unplated conductor and sorta whitish on the plated conductor. I tend to pitch this stuff simply because I don't have confidence in how good of a solder joint this will produce ? Maybe it sounds OK -but ?
Howz your monster look after all this time ?
Before posting to this forum, please read the forum rules. Many of you obviously haven't.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=410484
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=410484
There are three problems with that approach:
1. Many tape monitor loops are buffered such that you are isolating the cable's true electrical characteristics.
2. You are not testing the cable as it is actually used - most of the differences you hear are a result of the interaction between components - not of the cable itself. Testing them in isolation answers a question, but not the one I ask in the real world.
3. The cable in the monitor loop may actually work better with a given component than the one you are currently using masking the real potential of the new one independently of the other.
I've read a similar test on the Elliott site and is even more problematic. In that flavor, you attach the two cables under consideration via a Y-adapter to a source such as a CDP. Plug each end of cable into different input. Switch between the two.
In this scenario, the common ground of the Y-adapter combines the electrical characteristics of both cables as measured at the end of either. I verified this with my trusty capacitance meter. What you end up doing is comparing both cables to, well both cables. Not only will you not hear any difference, the summed metrics can make everything sound bad.
tape loop test
As is probably obvious - I'm a bit of a sceptic on the wire front .Agnostic ? But a question with the tape monitor loop test is probably semi-philosophical - is the cable you hear better or worse than the wire you don't ? Sorta like a variation on the question of whether a great amp is a straight wire with gain or ?
As is probably obvious - I'm a bit of a sceptic on the wire front .Agnostic ? But a question with the tape monitor loop test is probably semi-philosophical - is the cable you hear better or worse than the wire you don't ? Sorta like a variation on the question of whether a great amp is a straight wire with gain or ?
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