DCM Time Window 3 vs Time Window 1 series 2.

I have a pair of Time Window 1's, with the round DCM woofers, I believe to be series 2, 1's, but not TW 1a's.

I have a line on a pair of TW 3's. I know they're rare, but are they better enough to make me take money out of the bank?

I like the Time Window 1's I have, but I need to know if TW 3's are better enough to make a TW1 owner buy them.

Thoughts?

As a DCM hoarder, I'm really the wrong person to ask. I had my brother buy a pair for me in Atlanta and I haven't even heard them yet. Bought them based on the reviews alone.

About your Timewindow 1 series 2 speakers .. I have a pair of Timewindow 1's that have all of the appointments of the TW-1a's, but they are labeled as TW-1's. Is this what you have?

Mine have:

• Vifa tweeters & DCM 5 ohm made in Taiwan woofers
• light oak stained tops and bottoms
• brown fabric socks not foam grilles
• two bass ports (one on each side) in the fronts
• diffraction lenses over all of the woofers
• screens with diffraction felt over all the tweeters

To compare them side by side with TW-1a's they look the same except for the label on the back of the speaker near the speaker jacks.

89grand said:

I like the Time Window 1's I have, but I need to know if TW 3's are better enough to make a TW1 owner buy them.

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They were for me. I was in the same position, and haven't regretted buying the TW3s for 'real' money. They and the sub I got with them are about the only pieces I have in regular rotation that weren't thrift store scores.

The 3s have better bass response, and I like being able to adjust the level of the outboard drivers.

YMMV, FWIW, IMHO, BTW and lastly WTF.

89grand and Dr. Morbius,

Don't mean to hijack the thread but my question is somewhat relevant to the conversation. Dr. and I have talked a bit about the fluid nature of DCM production and how things are not always as they appear. You two seem to be very knowledgeable about DCM and Timewindows so here are the details. Hope you can point me in the right direction!~

I just got a pair of Timewindows and quite frankly, I am not sure what I have.

The tag says simply DCM Timewindows. No "1", "1A", etc. just "Timewindows"
The serials are consecutive (Yeah!) - 14053 and 14054.
The socks are black.
The wood seems to be oak laminate covered ply (not solid oak).
They measure 36" tall including the wood.
The woofers are round, not the hexagonal ones.
The socks are held by the dual plastic strips, nailed into the back of the tubes.

Included are a couple of pics. I have not tried to pull any of the drivers yet. Of course black-death awaits -AND- everything sounds fine as-is so may let sleeping dogs lie for now. The socks need some help so I plan to address that - gotta consider the WAF. The wood caps are in rough shape, may try to replace with solid oak - not sure yet.

What do you guys think I have here?? :scratch2:

Thanks!!

Those are just like mine, second series TW1's. They aren't the original TW with the Philips woofer, and they aren't TW1a's. They are called just TimeWindow, but are the second series, or some series after the originals, but before the 1a's. My serial numbers are close too, 15,xxx (I don't recall the exact number, but 15,???)

To answer my own question when I posted this, I bought the 3's, and they are quite good and worth the premium over the TW's and 1a's, although those are nice too.

-reverb- said:

89grand and Dr. Morbius,

Don't mean to hijack the thread but my question is somewhat relevant to the conversation. Dr. and I have talked a bit about the fluid nature of DCM production and how things are not always as they appear. You two seem to be very knowledgeable about DCM and Timewindows so here are the details. Hope you can point me in the right direction!~

I just got a pair of Timewindows and quite frankly, I am not sure what I have.

The tag says simply DCM Timewindows. No "1", "1A", etc. just "Timewindows"
The serials are consecutive (Yeah!) - 14053 and 14054.
The socks are black.
The wood seems to be oak laminate covered ply (not solid oak).
They measure 36" tall including the wood.
The woofers are round, not the hexagonal ones.
The socks are held by the dual plastic strips, nailed into the back of the tubes.

Included are a couple of pics. I have not tried to pull any of the drivers yet. Of course black-death awaits -AND- everything sounds fine as-is so may let sleeping dogs lie for now. The socks need some help so I plan to address that - gotta consider the WAF. The wood caps are in rough shape, may try to replace with solid oak - not sure yet.

What do you guys think I have here?? :scratch2:

Thanks!!

Click to expand...

Those are most definitely a pair of Timewindow 1's or just plain "Timewindows" as there really is no "1" designation.

Here's how you can tell ...

• Philips tweeters
• Ports on both front baffles. TW-1As have them on only 1 front baffle
• Glue where foam (not socks) would be wrapped around cabinets
• Vertical name plates on back of speakers.

Those caps are probably oak, just not a solid piece. Before buying anything try using a very heavy grit and sand them like a madman to see if you can clean all the old stain and scratches off. Then you can refinish them to your liking. I refinned mine with Tru-Oil.

So should I have hoped for something other than what I have?? They sound pretty sweet in the garage at least.

Good to hear about the 3's 89grand. Now I have something else to be watching for. I tell ya guys, I really like what I hear from anything DCM so far!

No foam on mine Dr. It is a speaker grill sort-of cloth - more cloth-like though; not quite as stretchy as speaker cloth however. Could be replacement I suppose. Fit is not all that great.

Looks like these may get a rebuild. At the very least socks (grills) and caps. Maybe crossover help as well - as long as I don't have to get into the black stuff!

Thanks! I knew I could count on you guys for solid intel. :thmbsp:

Dr. Morbius said:

Those caps are probably oak, just not a solid piece. Before buying anything try using a very heavy grit and sand them like a madman to see if you can clean all the old stain and scratches off. Then you can refinish them to your liking. I refinned mine with Tru-Oil.

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Think these cap are beyond sanding. They have some nasty areas around the edges where the laminate is totally gone. :worried:

I guess I could fill the voids with wood putty and paint them black, but I do like the oak (or another wood) look. I would think that a solid wood replacement would be easier than stripping and re-laminating what I have???

I love my TimeWindows. The 3's are bit better, but they have similar traits. Mine have foam, not speaker cloth. My 3's have socks.

Those are bitch to get into, much harder than 1a's or 3's. I haven't even attempted getting in mine. I do have new foam though that I'm going to install when it cools off here a bit.

reverb, you don't want to be recapping these speakers as you have to get inside to do it and that is not fun.

you can probably effect a nice repair of the end caps by laying a new chunk of veneer on the tops. Level the top with some sort of filler and then install new veneer. Shouldn't be to hard.

the speakers you got are the ones to have in my opinion. I'm not like the Dr. with a huge number of DCMs being used, but I have a pair of TWs I bought new, a second pair of TWs and a pair of TW1as that have gone through and I preferred the earlier model.

The TW has early models with octagonal Philips woofer.
Next came the DCM round woofers again with the end caps your speakers have, walnut veneer on a segmented base
Next came the walnut veneer on a brown painted rimmed base
On this latter version I have seen two types of strips to hold the foam grille material. One the plastic strips and one a pair of wooden slats about the same size as the plastic strips. These two speaker pairs were only 2000 apart in the higher 20,000 range.

DCM made one heck of a lot of these speakers so changes in build along the way would have been expected.

-reverb- said:

Think these cap are beyond sanding. They have some nasty areas around the edges where the laminate is totally gone. :worried:

I guess I could fill the voids with wood putty and paint them black, but I do like the oak (or another wood) look. I would think that a solid wood replacement would be easier than stripping and re-laminating what I have???

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You're right. That's definitely a veneer and I'm at a loss as to how to go about dressing them up.

Blue Shadow is right in that getting inside those cabinets to recap them would be very difficult. It basically requires a good heavy mallet to break away copious amounts of glue. Fortunately, in later models they figured out how to make servicing much easier.

Blue Shadow said:

... I'm not like the Dr. with a huge number of DCMs being used ....

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Oh c'mon now. I only have 7 pair.

Now the Blue Shadow mentions it, mine are not identical to reverb's, mine have the brown painted sides on the end caps. His are 14,xxx and mine are 15,xxx serial numbers so somewhere between those they started painted the sides of the caps brown.

Finally, I can add serial numbers to the end cap change. Another data point in my files.

Yeah, sound like a recap is out of the question unless absolutely warranted. My guess is I would do more damage getting the thing apart.

Blue Shadow: One additional data point. My 14,xxxx serials have the plastic strips with nails holding everything in place.

On the veneer; would it be better to strip what's there now and sand down to a solid ply base? I worry that the existing layer may peel later.

I sent a message to fellow AK'er 62sunbeam. He was parting with a butt-load of veneer a few months ago. If he still has some Walnut I am going to try and secure a couple of pieces from him to redo the tops.

I went home for lunch today and got a chance to sit down and really listed to these for the first time. I am blown away at how good they sound. I closed my eyes and the sound seemed to dance across the room. It was everywhere -and- nowhere at the same time.

I would imagine DCM made out well with these speakers. Discount the cost of the drivers, crossover parts and a little wood - everything else is dirt cheap. Plus the coarse finish of the assembly that is masked by wrapping it socks or foam thus reducing production costs! Unless the black-death-goop is expensive, I bet they had a healthy profit margin on these :yes:

I bought my first DCM's about 6 months ago and I am already up to 3 sets... I'll be up there with you in no time Dr.

Thanks Guys. I appreciate the dialog.

reverb - I have a pair just like the ones that you've described and well as an older (non-functioning) pair with the octogon Phillips mid-woofs. These are definitely the original TW's.

Regarding dismantling the originals - I seem to remember that the top plate is actually 2 pieces of wood - the visible exterior plate and a particle board piece that goes down into the top of the tube and is secured for all eternity with black death. I also seem to remember cutting in with a multi-tool under the top plate to separate it from the particle board piece and then cutting down with the multi-tool to get the particle board piece out. It was a while ago and there was probably beer and reckless abandon involved (I was taking apart a spare sacrificial lamb), and my memory sucks anyway so if you take this approach do so with caution. I will look tonight to see how I did it.

Some pics. The oldest versions:



Early crossovers:



Close up of Phillips driver and early tweeter:



These are in poor shape and may not get restored. After these I picked up some "newer" original TW's and will be restoring and modding them when the snow starts to fly.

Blue Shadow - I also have a pair of the original TW's, no DCM markings, no logo, serial numbers are stamped on the bottom end caps. My serials are 673 and 650, after talking to Steve E. about them, he thinks they were either made in his basement or at one of the few shops he was using before DCM really began to market and produce in any volume. They have octagonal woofs, a couple of wood vertical strips on the back to hold on the "foam" covers.

I have replace the foam once as it began to fall apart, other than that they were back to the factory before they closed for a "tune-up", not sure what was done to them at that time. They still sound fantastic, after 30+ years, I can't believe they are still this good. I have friends come over and after listening to them, want to know where I got them because they want to buy a pair. I have a Carver 6250 pushing them, just enjoying the system to no end!!

Howdy ,

thanks for all the DCM info. I have the starting of being DCM hoarder.
TF600,TF350 TW 1 ? and latest TW3

The TW1 s
are just like reverb explains but mine are in the SN 40243 the other not in place I can look

89 Grand where did you get the foam ? I ordered some but it got here with 2 holes in it . I have the original foam (cat scratch ) I have been thinking of making socks ... I need new socks for the TF 350 ( smoker and brown ) and the TW3 another victim of a cat ....

So any recommendations on Speaker cloth ?

Just another thought on older TW 1 cap removal. It appears to have staples from the side and looking at Moon Mans pixs it looks like the glue from hell is just a seal between cap and tube.... I am thinking punch the staple all the way in and cut seal with razor ... just think out loud

If I find a pair in repair I will check it out ? Right now mine sound great and I can't bring myself to take them apart


I am not as bad as reverb took me 11 month to get to 4 pair ... I have been getting great prices But I have a few more in mind I would love to have .....

gib48189 said:

Blue Shadow - I also have a pair of the original TW's, no DCM markings, no logo, serial numbers are stamped on the bottom end caps.

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A friend had these types of serial numbers on his set. The early years for sure.

I got the foam here. 30 ppi, 1/4" thick. It's a dark grey rather than black, but I'm going to lightly dust it with black spray paint.

http://www.thefoamfactory.com/opencellfoam/filter.html