Considering A Tube Preamp

I made a few recent changes to my rig. My Denon CD player has been and will continue to be a constant.

Was running my Bryston B60R into a pair of PMC TB2i speakers. Couldn't complain. Sounded very good, but I always got the feeling the PMC's wanted more. When I switched out the amp and put in the YBA YA201 the extra power was a welcome change. There was more drive, the sound not quite as thick. Balance top to bottom, timing, and tone were about the same (they sounded right). Though I'd say in both cases the sound was a little bit clinical.

In went the B&W 705. Even more leanness, clarity, and drive. The bass felt deeper and punchier, dynamics better than with most standmounts I've had in my room. I'm not hearing discontinuity between the woofer and tweeter and musical instruments and voices sound natural and alive.

These aren't as power hungry as the PMC's and you can really hear it. This seems to be a love it or hate it speaker. There are reviews online from users who seem to not be able to get them to sound right. But many others from people who really dig them.

They sound plenty right to me. I really like them...overall however, the sound needs a bit of massaging. It's on the lean and bright side...not too much, but more than I'd like. And like the PMC's, a little bit clinical. I think the issue is that all of my components lean to that sound signature. If I can warm up the sound a bit, give it a little more soul, I think it'd suit me.

So I start looking at tube buffers. I like my amp, source, and speakers. Just need something to warm up the sound. A really nice buffer would cost around $700. But then it hits me...why not just spend that on a tube preamp and do what RGA suggested in a previous thread...run that into my Bryston B60 and use the B60 as a power amp?

So that's what I'm going to do. I may even replace the B60 in time with a stand alone SS power amp. Looks like decent ones start around $500 used. Maybe a Rega Maia 3, Quad 606, an Audio Refinement Multi 3, something from Linn, Roksan, or Classe', the options are almost endless. Classe' with B&W might be the natural pairing.

For now I'm focusing on the tube preamp. Any suggestions? I am leaning to trying a model from ARC (no shortage of these and I like the support that I can access). Anthem could be another. Quicksilver, Sonic Frontiers, BAT. Maybe a used Rogue Audio Perseus, if one comes up for sale. Looking at spending $700-$1,200 after selling the YBA.

Listened to the B60 last night hooked up to the 705. While the YBA was clearly a better match for my PMC's, the B60 is clearly a better match for the B&W's. Bryston and PMC work great together, but I'd want a B100 at the very least to get the most from the TB2i.

There is a lot more warmth and body now than when I had the YBA hooked up to the 705. I know, Bryston and B&W may not sound like they would result in that but the B60 seems to be different than other Bryston products in this regard. I've come across numerous reviews from others who say this, and my results also bear this out.

I feel less need today to add a tube preamp, but I will still pick up a used model as it will be interesting indeed to see what kind of sound I get when I bypass the preamp in the B60. Hopefully a bit more openness and a wider/deeper soundstage.

As someone who participated for years on this forum without becoming a subscriber (dire circumstances made it impossible), once that was behind me, I recently gladly subscribed. Though I didn't subscribe for the purpose of accessing Bartertown on here, I am regularly impressed with many of the items on offer, and the pricing thereof. As we speak, there is a sweetheart of a tube preamp with external power supply on there for $700.00 that I would love to have, but, for now, there is a budget ceiling on obtaining a new preamp that falls short of the seemingly quite fair price. You sound like someone that would also benefit greatly laying down the $25 USD to join, as you are obviously in acquisition mode, and better situated to make your move. Just a thought. Good luck.

Thanks, I'll keep Bartertown in mind. In the meantime, I have zeroed in on a few interesting options on the used market from ARC, Anthem, and Audio Electronics.

I'd love to try a Conrad Johnson preamp, there are many out there, but the ones in my price range seem to always lack a remote control. Can't live without one as I frequently adjust the volume in small increments while listening.

I had the yba ya201 a number of years back. It had a well balance sound from bottom to top w/o emphasizing any frequency range, better than any other integrated I've owned. My speakers sounded their best with this amp. Too bad the display was so hard to read and the reason for me selling it.

I found the Audio Electronics AE3-DJH tube preamp by Cary Audio a perfect combination w/ Pass Labs Aleph 30 power amps. Knowing what that little preamp did with my SS amp lets me know it will probably fill in the Bryston amps clinical nature.

The YBA's display didn't give me any problems, but I can see how it would be difficult to read in different conditions. I mainly listen at night and so the display wasn't an issue. I agree, the sound was very balanced, however with the 705 I felt like there was a bit too much emphasis on the mids and highs. I had different results with the PMC's though...guess that goes to show the importance of component matching.

Thanks for the feedback on the AE3...I am getting excited to insert a tube pre into the mix.

Fusion said:

I'd love to try a Conrad Johnson preamp, there are many out there, but the ones in my price range seem to always lack a remote control. Can't live without one as I frequently adjust the volume in small increments while listening.

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I've been thinking about trying a tube pre with my Bel Canto mono blocks. I'm with you though it would have to have a remote. I won't consider anything without one.

cubdog

Check out the VTA preamps at tubesforhifi.com.
http://www.tubes4hifi.com/SP14.htm
Quality stuff.

If you can find an older VAC used like the CLA1, you can't go wrong except no remote.

A used Modwright SWL9.0SE is well within your budget and has a remote.
Unfortunately, they don't come up for sale very often, I bought mine from eBay.
There's a lot of info and outstanding reviews around the web, just take a look and be patient if you decide to get one.

I can strongly recommend the Juicy Music Blueberry Extreme - incredible sound overall with the best phono section I've ever heard. For around $1200 you might be able to find a nice used one with remote. Another plus is the designer Mark Deneen is once again offering service and upgrades for these incredible pre's.

The BBX had a remote?

I agree with the recommendation for Modwright SWL 9.0SE. In fact I'm listening to one right now. Not really a "tube roller's delight" due to limited choice in manufacturers of 5687 tubes -- but a nice pre-amp! Remote functions are limited to volume and mute.

skriefal said:

The BBX had a remote?

I agree with the recommendation for Modwright SWL 9.0SE. In fact I'm listening to one right now. Not really a "tube roller's delight" due to limited choice in manufacturers of 5687 tubes -- but a nice pre-amp! Remote functions are limited to volume and mute.

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The BBX "II" has the remote.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

Never even heard of Juicy Music before but that looks like a nice pre and a phenomenal value if you can find a used one. Do they no longer make new ones? Seems that way when I view their website...looks to be only repair/mod work now.

Unfortunately, the VAC is a bit over budget and no remote is kind of a deal breaker.

The Modwright looks like a great choice...lack of tubes isn't a huge issue, but I'd definitely like to roll some tubes over the coming years. That's part of the fun.

I am still attracted to ARC for sheer choice, resale value, build quality, and service.

You can roll tubes through the Modwright SWL 9.0 SE. But there aren't as much choices as you'd get with something like a 12AU7 or 12AX7. You'll have options from Tung-Sol, Sylvania, Raytheon, GE, and RCA. I don't recall seeing any 5687s made outside the USA. You can also use 7044s, 7119s, or 6900s.

No new BBs
They pop up from time to time
Get in touch with the builder. He does support and mods. He found me mine and he's a super guy to deal with. If you can't find contact info pm me. I'm on my phone now otherwise I'd just post it

I don't have any first hand experience with it, I've heard some good things about the Prima Luna DiaLogue Premium Preamplifier.

They run about $2,000.00 used if you can find one, $3,200.00 new.

One thing's for sure. It's one of the coolest looking preamps I've ever seen.

http://www.primaluna-usa.com/images/dl-prem-pre-big.jpg

For about $600-$750 on the used market this the preamp I would buy certainly over the ARC preamps.



Unsurprisingly since it's the preamp section of my OTO.

Fusion said:

In went the B&W 705. Even more leanness, clarity, and drive. The bass felt deeper and punchier, dynamics better than with most standmounts I've had in my room.

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How many watts do you want to have to drive these with?????

Are these your keeper speakers??

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. The Blueberry really piqued my interest and I must say the AN is very attractive in terms of price. Never heard of a 6111WA tube though.

I've got a bead on an ARC preamp (SP16L, with 3 x 12AX7 tubes). Being sold locally by someone I've bought from in the past for a good price. Perfect condition. He knew I was thinking about trying a tube pre and offered me his. I don't know if I can resist. I'll have to decide soon. I figure with ARC, if I don't like it the market is good enough that selling it for the same price shouldn't be a problem, and he even mentioned he might take it back for the same price a year or so down the road...so frankly I am leaning this way.

Bubo said:

How many watts do you want to have to drive these with?????

Are these your keeper speakers??

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My Bryston outputs 60 watts in 8 ohms, 100 into 4. B&W is known for needing power, but the 705 aren't power pigs. Frankly, these are easier to drive than many of the speakers I've tried over the years and this is borne out by Stereophile's measurements. The B60R handles the speaker amazingly well and I can't say enough about Bryston's build quality. It's a bit industrial looking but the switches and knobs feel so solid and the sound is simply warm and clear. For anyone looking for a moderately powered integrated at under $1,000, it's hard to go wrong with a B60, IMO. Even if one doesn't like the sound, the used market on Bryston gear is good, so selling isn't going to be a big problem.

Keeper speakers? Well, unless I move to something substantially different (like large AN speakers for example) I am off the speaker merry-go-round. I also have a pair of Tannoy 609 mkII and a pair of AN AX-2 speakers. Between the three, that's all I need. The Tannoys give me something with a relatively large driver (8") while the AN's give me something easy to drive; all three speakers are a joy to listen to.

The 705 seems to be a love it or hate it speaker...you have people online saying they can't get it to sound right, while others say it's the best speaker they ever owned. I'm not sure it's the best speaker I've ever owned, but in my room and in my system it works amazingly well. The sound is detailed, open, dynamic, authoritative. Bass has nice weight, mids and highs are in proper balance. The highs are among the cleanest I've ever heard but they aren't bright and fatiguing. Instruments and voices sound correct and music is engaging if just a tad on the clinical side but only because the sound is so composed. I could go on but you get the picture. I am very happy and I've learned that I shouldn't mess with things too much now because I'll surely make it worse before I make it better again.

I think my CD player, amp and speakers are all pretty honest sounding pieces (neutral, transparent) and that's how music is presented...so well recorded discs will sound very open and warm, while poorly recorded discs will sound poor, though usually not unlistenable. A tube pre I hope will allow me to tailor the sound a bit but we'll see.