List Of Tuners That Can Properly Filter HD Radio Self Noise?

DKak

Active Member
Hi all,

I've read through Brian Beezley's info and it's great. I'm not sure I understand it all, but I'm trying as I go. Anyway, at the end of one page he lists some tuners with postdetection filters that should be able to virtually eliminate HD Radio self noise as an issue with analog signals. Here's the new link to the page: http://www.ham-radio.com/k6sti/hdrsn.htm

While I'm lucky enough to own two tuners on that list, I wonder if our resident AK tuner gurus can add to it. There must be more tuners that can also filter this noise properly, whether by a postdetection filter or another method. Will the SAW filters in some tuners do it?

How about specific models from some of the classic tuner companies ... McIntosh, Pioneer, Sansui, Kenwood, Marantz, et al? The must be more models than what's on Mr. Beezley's short list. What about some of the older stereo tube tuners from the 60s? Heath, Scott, Eico, Dyna, Marantz and so on?

Thanks in advance to all added info!

Dave
 
Two that I have handle it very well. Kenwood KT-7500 and Yamaha TX-930.
One that I like but doesn't handle it well at all: Realistic TM-1000. I guess I shouldn't be surprised!

My sony ICF-SW7600GR portable filters it out pretty well too, but that's a totally other kind of animal than we usually talk about here.
 
On his website, Brian Beezley lists the features an analog tuner should have to be able to filter out the noise from the HD subcarrier signal. These include: postdetection filter, analog-multiplier decoder, walsh-function decoder, switched-sinewave decoder. He also lists a number of tuners that have one or more of these. I'm curious about a few (solid state and tube) that he has not listed, and whether they have the above components and are able to filter out the HD noise:

Sansui TU-9900
Sony ST-5000F
Sony ST-A6B
McIntosh MR74
McIntosh MX110 (which I believe is equivalent to an MR67)
Fisher KM-60
Scott 310E
Fisher 200-B

The tuner sections of:
Concept 11.0
Marantz 2270
Sony STR-6200F
Sherwood S-7700III.

Any help or insights are greatly appreciated!

Thor
 
Just tested my Sony ST-5000F against a local station (98.1). The little Sony HD radio gets this as an HD broadcast and it sound clean if digital and thin. On the ST-5000F, the analog signal does have LOTS of HD artifacts..

I've the STR-6200F also and, while I haven't tested it, it sounds very much like the 5000 and supposedly has a similar FM section. I know the IF architecture is the similar.

I've had the Fisher KM-60 and the Scott 310E but I never knowingly listened to stations with HDR sidebands so will withhold an opinion.
 
FauxHall, do you by any chance live in the Seattle area? I'm asking because 98.1 here is a tough station for me to get cleanly with any tuner.

Just tested my Sony ST-5000F against a local station (98.1). The little Sony HD radio gets this as an HD broadcast and it sound clean if digital and thin. On the ST-5000F, the analog signal does have LOTS of HD artifacts..

I've the STR-6200F also and, while I haven't tested it, it sounds very much like the 5000 and supposedly has a similar FM section. I know the IF architecture is the similar.

I've had the Fisher KM-60 and the Scott 310E but I never knowingly listened to stations with HDR sidebands so will withhold an opinion.
 
I'm in San Jose, California, on the SW edge of town against the hills and Los Gatos.
 
The problem is apparently with third and fifth level harmonics which fall into the same range as the HD carrier signal.

From what I've seen, the "classic" Sansui receivers use a Walsh function decoder which inhibit HD Radio self-noise for both ordinary and extended hybrid signals.

Or so they say. Not like I could make that up. <G>

The Denon TU-680NAB uses the same type of decoder.

I do know that I haven't noticed any HD issues on any of my Sui equipment. All quad stuff - QR4500, QRX-6001 and the QRX-9001. I've got a couple stereo receivers (8080db and 9090db) but haven't tried those.
 
Interesting article. Wondering what the HD radio generated "annoying background noise" sounds like. Is it distinct or just like other FM noise?
 
Interesting article. Wondering what the HD radio generated "annoying background noise" sounds like. Is it distinct or just like other FM noise?
If what I've heard is really the HD Radio self-noise--and I think it is--what you will hear is a kind of soft whooshing, hissing sound that changes somewhat based on what is being broadcast.

The good news is that shutting off the FM stereo reception mode will also resolve the problem, and should do so on any tuner. So if you can stand to hear monophonic audio, that method will also work.

That is what I do when when listening to the few FM stations broadcasting in HD here if the tuner I'm using is sensitive to such noise.
 
Just tested my Sony ST-5000F against a local station (98.1). The little Sony HD radio gets this as an HD broadcast and it sound clean if digital and thin. On the ST-5000F, the analog signal does have LOTS of HD artifacts..

I've the STR-6200F also and, while I haven't tested it, it sounds very much like the 5000 and supposedly has a similar FM section. I know the IF architecture is the similar.

I've had the Fisher KM-60 and the Scott 310E but I never knowingly listened to stations with HDR sidebands so will withhold an opinion.

HD noise has caused me to quit listening to radio completely. I hope that it gets so bad that it eventually kills off the moneygrubbing corporate radio industry.

File complaints with the FCC whenever you hear it. It's illegal operation and they'll have to do SOMETHING to the worst offenders when their licenses come up for renewal.
 
I wonder if it's possible to install one of the above filters in a tuner that doesn't have one?
 
Reading through that information, and looking at the manual for my old Scott LT-112B tuner I built as a kit, it might already be filtered. Scott says in the block diagram that the composite signal is "DC-75 kc" . I think it's the same as a 312C. Any Scott tuner aficionados have an opinion? :scratch2:
 
Pretty sure the noise I'm hearing on WRR/101.1 is the dreaded HDRSN. WRR is pushing their HD capability and the noise is as uxwbill describes. In addition, the noise is reduced using narrow bandwidth and disappears in mono. Per the scope the signal is very strong with no multipath. Have two tuners on the HDRSN free list and will report back after putting one in the system.
 
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FauxHall, do you by any chance live in the Seattle area? I'm asking because 98.1 here is a tough station for me to get cleanly with any tuner.

Yggdrasill, I'm in Shoreline, and receive 98.1 very well (most of the time) with several different analog tuners. However, this station broadcasts a 68000W FM signal as well as the 680W HD signal, so am unable to answer regarding HD. I just use a modest antenna. I am also at the top of a hill. My mother lives in town, in a valley between two hills, and has trouble with this station as well.
 
Yggdrasill, I'm in Shoreline, and receive 98.1 very well (most of the time) with several different analog tuners. However, this station broadcasts a 68000W FM signal as well as the 680W HD signal, so am unable to answer regarding HD. I just use a modest antenna. I am also at the top of a hill. My mother lives in town, in a valley between two hills, and has trouble with this station as well.

Hey GuyK,

I'm in NE Seattle in a valley. :sigh: I also have a modest antenna, just an indoor dipole right now. I have a vertical dipole that I am going to mount on the roof one of these days. I did rotate the antenna to a different wall the other day, which helped. I hear what I think is a lot of HD noise (sort of a constant background buzz/hiss) on 94.9, which is a pretty strong station that I receive without much multipath.

Hey, if you'd like to talk tuners further, PM me your phone number!

Thor
 
Hey GuyK,

I'm in NE Seattle in a valley. :sigh: I also have a modest antenna, just an indoor dipole right now. I have a vertical dipole that I am going to mount on the roof one of these days. I did rotate the antenna to a different wall the other day, which helped. I hear what I think is a lot of HD noise (sort of a constant background buzz/hiss) on 94.9, which is a pretty strong station that I receive without much multipath.

Hey, if you'd like to talk tuners further, PM me your phone number!

Thor

My mother is in NE Seattle also, and has an external antenna. It's rotated to receive the tv stations from downtown (SW), and 98.1 transmits from Tiger Mtn (ESE). I'd like to put it up on a mast, but she doesn't listen to the radio very often.
 
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I have a high quality tuner and listen to a classical college station on occasion. The station also broadcasts HD. I pick up a lot of noise and don't like the mono alternative. Is there anything the station could do, or is the only solution (not making a modification to the tuner) is to buy a HD tuner?
 
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