Identify These Cartridges Please

Now I will need to assess the styli condition. I guess I will need to do that by ear since doing it by eye requires a scope and experience? The problem is, I don't have the ear experience either.

I'm guessing this was barely used since the table is near mint, in the box with manuals and the headshell with the AT cart was in the spare headshell holder, not on the arm.
 
Yay boreas!
The Empire is what we sometimes call the Blob On A Clip style. Empire made these beginning around 1973 and stopped a bit before 1980. There are only four different bodies, and that one is probably from the large group that's in the middle. These are very good-sounding cartridges when you can find the good styli they were designed for. Worth the hunt.
 
So what kind of value do I have here for these 2 carts? I didn't expect much cart wise when I bought this but it sounds like they were expensive in their day? Not selling so not a D&S question. Just curious.
 
So what kind of value do I have here for these 2 carts? I didn't expect much cart wise when I bought this but it sounds like they were expensive in their day? Not selling so not a D&S question. Just curious.

If the stylus is in good shape, the AT is worth a lot, certainly more than $100.00 and maybe a lot more for the right buyer. The Empire won't be all that much, I think. The bodies are abundant and it doesn't appear that it has one of the better styli right now.

John
 
That purple stylus was one of the best Empire ellipticals, but who knows how much the one on that particular body has been used/abused in the decades since. The modern name for that stylus is the Empire S912E, and NOS examples come up from time to time on eBay. There are other choices as well.

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EMPIRE 2300 E III Improved with S912E STYLUS

People still ask the moon for Empire bodies (even without the necessary mounting clip!), but that doesn't mean they're worth that much, especially now that the styli have been out of production for decades and original styli have become tough to find. And as boreas said, there's a zillion of 'em-- bodies, that is.

And yes, you should use a record that has strong, clean S sounds from a sibilant vocalist to test styli if you have no hope of finding a specialized stylus microscope. I use side 1 of the Bangles album Different Light. Make sure the diamond is perfectly clean.
 
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That purple stylus WAS one of the best Empire ellipticals, but who knows how much the one on that particular body has been used/abused in the decades since. The modern name for that stylus is the Empire S912E, and NOS examples come up from time to time on eBay. There are other choices as well.

People still ask the moon for Empire bodies (even without the necessary mounting clip!), but that doesn't mean they're worth that much, especially now that the styli have been out of production for decades and original styli have become tough to find. And as boreas said, there's a zillion of 'em.

And yes, you should use a record that has strong, clean S sounds from a sibilant vocalist to test styli if you have no hope of finding a specialized stylus microscope. I use side 1 of the Bangles album Different Light. Make sure the diamond is perfectly clean.

Fortunately, TurntableNeedles has a bin full of NOS/pulled Empire bodies for cheap.

http://www.turntableneedles.com/Empire-Cartridge_p_748.html

No clip though.

Wasn't the S912E red???

John
 
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John: You're thinking of the S917E. But I have to blink twice myself sometimes before I type these things.

Do we know anyone who's bought the TTN.com Empire body and has a meter to measure it with?
 
John: You're thinking of the S917E. But I have to blink twice myself sometimes before I type these things.

Otay, Banky.

Do we know anyone who's bought the TTN.com Empire body and has a meter to measure it with?

Sounds as if they're a mixed lot so measuring one may not tell you anything that can be generalized to the available stock as a whole. You pays yer munny and you takes yer chainces.

John
 
From the pics, the AT cart looks further back in the headshell. Probably setup on a stevensen alignment. May want to get a protractor and check the cart alignment if the stylus checks out OK...
 
That purple stylus WAS one of the best Empire ellipticals, but who knows how much the one on that particular body has been used/abused in the decades since. The modern name for that stylus is the Empire S912E, and NOS examples come up from time to time on eBay. There are other choices as well.


EMPIRE 2300 E III Improved with S912E STYLUS, ONE OF SEVERAL WORKABLE COMBINATIONS

People still ask the moon for Empire bodies (even without the necessary mounting clip!), but that doesn't mean they're worth that much, especially now that the styli have been out of production for decades and original styli have become tough to find. And as boreas said, there's a zillion of 'em-- bodies, that is.

And yes, you should use a record that has strong, clean S sounds from a sibilant vocalist to test styli if you have no hope of finding a specialized stylus microscope. I use side 1 of the Bangles album Different Light. Make sure the diamond is perfectly clean.
.

Old thread resurrection time: I just picked up a Dual 506 with the same 2300 E/III Empire cart and stylus combo pictured above. Need to clean the diamond and play an expendable record to get a rough idea of its condition.
 
Exactly. Do make sure the test record you use has clean sibilants, ie, ones that are strong but can be played cleanly by a cartridge/stylus with topnotch tracking.
 
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Exactly. Do make sure the test record you use has clean sibilants, ie, ones that are strong but can be played cleanly by a cartridge/stylus with topnotch tracking.

Will do, though that's assuming I can ever get the tip clean. I've tried Magic Eraser, my Onzow Zerodust, and some old Pickering stylus cleaning fluid I had laying around, but there's still a nice embedded crust. Must resist my irrational urge to attempt to "clean" with the edge of an Exacto blade. No good can come of that.
 
I've found that a little 6mm-wide eyeliner-type makeup brush from the dollar store dipped in denatured alcohol can often move/shift stubborn crud.
 
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I've found that a little 6mm-wide eyeliner-type makeup brush from the dollar store dipped in denatured alcohol can often move/shift stubborn crud.

I ended up using a little 99 percent isopropyl on a spare stylus brush and successfully decrudded the diamond. I also measured the resistance and came up with 1096 and 1104 ohms. Hopefully I'll get a chance to listen tomorrow. What capacitance and VTF does this combo like?
 
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I finally got this mounted and listened to a few records. In a folk mood, I started with Gordon Lightfoot's Summer Side of Life. This is a really well-recorded album, and overall it sounded the best I've heard it. The width and depth of the soundstage were excellent and instruments and Lightfoot's voice were more "real."

Next I moved on to a song with strong sibilance, Janis Ian's At Seventeen. I hadn't noticed it before, but my copy has a moderate warp. Unfortunately, the combo of warp and sibilance was too much for the cart to track, alternating between hot ssss's and rising out of the groove, even with the damping of my Jelco SA 750D. I had the tracking at 1.25g and perhaps 1.5g would have improved things, but I'm not so sure. I need to try the same track with my Pickering XV-15/D1200 and compare.

Fwiw I'm currently at 275pf capacitance. I need to make up some new plugs to get me up to 400pf.
 
Glad to hear you're enjoying the sound.
Let us know if you try another hot-sibilants test record. This stylus is not out of the woods yet.
The Blob-On-Clip cartridges were heavier than most, so the arm-cartridge infrasonic resonant frequency is pushed down compared to, say, your XV-15/1200 cartridge. I'm not familiar with the Jelco or its method of damping, but if it's adjustable, you might want to experiment. Try increasing it, watching carefully to make sure you don't overdamp. That will help keep the VTF constant, and that will help the tracking.
 
Glad to hear you're enjoying the sound.
Let us know if you try another hot-sibilants test record. This stylus is not out of the woods yet.
The Blob-On-Clip cartridges were heavier than most, so the arm-cartridge infrasonic resonant frequency is pushed down compared to, say, your XV-15/1200 cartridge. I'm not familiar with the Jelco or its method of damping, but if it's adjustable, you might want to experiment. Try increasing it, watching carefully to make sure you don't overdamp. That will help keep the VTF constant, and that will help the tracking.

Sibilance test disc #2: Bruce Springsteen's Tunnel of Love. I'd say the stylus fared well on this one, walking the line right up to too hot to handle without crossing it.

The overall sound was again more or less as I described with the Lightfoot album. If I could pick out one criticism it would be that the midrange, especially with vocals doesn't have quite enough meat on its bones, i.e. a little thin. I have the VTF at 1.25, which seems to give me the most open and detailed sound, and the Jelco's oil damping reduced by a quarter turn of the plug. Perhaps hitting the recommended capacitance will help the mids? The caps and RCA plugs I needed just arrived from Mouser, so I'll be able to get up to ~400pf in the next few days.
 
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