Who actually has a 'dead' listening room?

Sometimes, when you see the importance of absorbing first reflections being preached you run into those who say they don't want a 'dead' room, aka anechoic chamber.

They prefer a bit of 'liveliness', so they say.

Realising that you actually have to actively do something about to reduce the reflections in your listening room in most cases, who actually has this very dead listening room?

Care to show us what it looks like?

IMO: No one that actually cares about the sound. A totally dead room (anechoic chamber) or one close to it is suitable only for testing speakers, not listening to them.

The ideal room should have a little bit of everything, absorption, reflection, dispersion. Absorbing the first reflections (my room does) is a far cry from absorbing everything.

I've heard a LEDE (live end, dead end) room. With many box type speakers it can provide very good sound. It doesn't work for di-polar's, bi-polar's or omni's.

That's my take too, Joe. But I am giving it a benefit of doubt. Too many of us say their room would be too dead if there were absorption panels.

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The room is almost as much of an "instrument" as the source is... Diffusion is the most convenient method of handling room problems IMHO.

If dead rooms were the key to listening nirvana then all listening venues would be nearly identical.

YMMV of course!

The closest I get to a dead listening room is by sitting very close to the speakers. So I really hear the speakers instead of all that room bounce and reverb. I've grown to like sitting close to the speakers.

Here's what an anechoic chamber looks like:



People don't fare very well in spaces like this. Apparently, we start to hallucinate after a period of time. I certainly wouldn't wish my listening space to be like this, but there is a world of difference between treating a listening room, and making a room dead. The goals are different.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...etest-place-chamber-Orfield-Laboratories.html

I have this self made theory on how I have accomplished the problems regarding the first reflection.

I position and angle my speakers so that the first reflection would arrive behind my listening seating. Simply toeing my speaker in, and placing the listening seating forward of the reflection. Plenty of heavy curtains, wool rugs, and quite a number of fabric chairs and sofa's with quite a number of pillows. I know its not ideal, but I try to mentally convince myself its helpful.

I am aware that there is a spot to the rear left, in the corner, where the bass is much more plentiful.

DeeCee said:

The room is almost as much of an "instrument" as the source is... Diffusion is the most convenient method of handling room problems IMHO.

If dead rooms were the key to listening nirvana then all listening venues would be nearly identical.

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But you must realise that the speakers don't play music like actual instruments do. The information from the source already contains the external sound. The analogy just can't be made.

And not all listening venues are created equal regardless of your premise.

luddite said:

The closest I get to a dead listening room is by sitting very close to the speakers. So I really hear the speakers instead of all that room bounce and reverb. I've grown to like sitting close to the speakers.

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That's how headphones work. Near-field listening is good in that regard, but you also lose the sound stage and depth, which is what makes speakers a lot more desirable than headphones for me.

davidro said:

But you must realise that the speakers don't play music like actual instruments do. The information from the source already contains the external sound. The analogy just can't be made.

And not all listening venues are created equal regardless of your premise.



That's how headphones work. Near-field listening is good in that regard, but you also lose the sound stage and depth, which is what makes speakers a lot more desirable than headphones for me.

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True enough, however NOTHING is like the original recorded event performed in the original venue... especially in the current world of electronic and synthesized instrumentation.

The point I was trying to make was that producing a "dead" room to recreate a musical venue doesn't work (for a reason you mentioned - loss of soundstage and depth) also in many recordings you are listening to a "false" environment - a recording studio. When you add in multi-tracking, compression/expansion, EQ, reverb, etc.; pretty much attempting to reproduce the event is a lost cause (but fun to attempt, nonetheless - that's why we are in this hobby in the first place!)

There are some recordings that use a minimalist approach and you *might* have a chance there...

Happy Listening!
DeeCee

Not dead, but it might be if I continued adding more panels into my small listening room. The corner bass traps do wonders for tightening up the bass, and the wall panels absorb some of the first reflections.

I have a fairly unique setup in my music room when it come to reflections. It is a small room with the speakers angled in so there is just a touch of first reflections. My chair is against the back wall which is only four foot high and opens into a much larger room. Most of the sound waves go out into the back room and cannot be heard because of the wall blocking the back of my head. I get a little bit of reflection from the wall itself, but not much. I did not expect to have good results in the space when I first setup my system, but I was quite pleased with how it worked out. I can crank it up way beyond what a room that size could typically handle.

Kinda crappy picture. The music room is in the back:
(need to repaint. used to be my daughter's domain)

My porch is pretty close with an outdoor sub on the house wall.

Ken Boyd said:

I have this self made theory on how I have accomplished the problems regarding the first reflection.

I position and angle my speakers so that the first reflection would arrive behind my listening seating. Simply toeing my speaker in, and placing the listening seating forward of the reflection. Plenty of heavy curtains, wool rugs, and quite a number of fabric chairs and sofa's with quite a number of pillows. I know its not ideal, but I try to mentally convince myself its helpful.

I am aware that there is a spot to the rear left, in the corner, where the bass is much more plentiful.

Click to expand...

They are called first reflection points because the sound reaches them before it reaches your ears. The result is that the imaging is smeared and the sound stage is degraded.

The first reflection points are on the side walls, floor and ceiling. To find the first reflection points; Sit in your "chair" and have someone move a mirror along a side wall. When you can see the speaker (closest to that wall) you've found the first reflection point.

luddite said:

The closest I get to a dead listening room is by sitting very close to the speakers. So I really hear the speakers instead of all that room bounce and reverb. I've grown to like sitting close to the speakers.

Click to expand...

That's called near field listening. It works best with smaller box type speakers.

Poultrygeist said:

My porch is pretty close with an outdoor sub on the house wall.

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True. No walls means no first reflection.

However the floor and ceiling still count.

McBru6177 said:

Not dead, but it might be if I continued adding more panels into my small listening room. The corner bass traps do wonders for tightening up the bass, and the wall panels absorb some of the first reflections.

Click to expand...

That's a beautiful room as are the choices you made to fill it and treat it. I'd buy a ticket to have a listen.

I suspect a mortician might. I am sure an embalmer does.

Regards
Mister Pig

My listening room is about half and half. The upper half is fairly live, but the lower half has carpet, and several couches and chairs. I've added some small treatments, but not really in a systematic manner.

Having a "live end, dead end" room, but split vertically instead of the usual horizontal split, has definitely affected the sound in an unusual way, in that very tall speakers don't sound as good as they could, I believe. The drawback with tall speakers in my room is harshness at higher volumes, and is the main reason the Maggie 1.7s were moved elsewhere. Whereas MMGs worked great and could really be cranked, the 1.7s gave more detail, but were ultimately less satisfying. The Quads are not just "keepers", they are my end-game loudspeakers.

I also have a "left wall present, right wall absent" situation, with the dining room open where the right wall would be. It's not all that bad, but I'm considering some decorative diffusion or absorption treatment to be added to the record boxes on the left, if I can think of something that doesn't look too goofy...





I think half of a basketball affixed to each record box would work for diffusion, but would look very, very goofy! Other suggestions are welcome, btw...

My listening area has vaulted ceilings, carpet over cement slab, and big windows in back on one end. I find I can 'tune' the listening area by playing with the angle of the blinds. The sides are 5-9 feet away from the back wall I work against to place my speakers. it's open on either side of the speakers. I found that my KEF 104aB's needed to be 8-12" from the back wall and up about 20" off the floor (upside down pair per side...) but the JBL 4312's worked best about 1" from the back wall, sideways with woofs out and up about 40" off the floor. The KEF's like to be pointed in a little, while the JBL's sounded best flat on to the wall.

There is a large double window with venetian blinds and drapes.behind my speakers (front wall). I too use the blinds and drapes to "tune" the sound.

McBru6177 said:

Not dead, but it might be if I continued adding more panels into my small listening room. The corner bass traps do wonders for tightening up the bass, and the wall panels absorb some of the first reflections.

Click to expand...

I really love that room, and I'd bet it sounds great, but as another guy with a quite small space (11x12) my guess is that to get that room truly dead it would take a LOT of absorption...like everywhere.
I state that not to be a know-it-all but more to see what other's thoughts are?

I'm using some hybrid OB speakers in that room now (Tekton 4.5OB's) and getting things to sound just right is interesting. It's really really good right now, but having a dipole in a room that small is a task.