Dipole FM Question

Panamafred

AK Subscriber
Subscriber
Hey! Trying to pick up the coolest radio station in Wisconsin , 91.7 WMSE. I am able to bring it in on mono pretty well with a dipole antenna on a Pioneer TX-130, but I want it perfect!

Could I just strip the ends of the dipole and twist on some speaker wire effectively doubling the length of the thing? Or are there length/resistance/thickness considerations with antenna wire? Thanks!
 
The length of a FM dipole should be one meter long. You don't really want to lengthen the antenna but you can lengthen the lead to the receiver with the same kind of wire, usually 300 ohm twin lead. The antenna will be somewhat directional in the horizontal position. You might try positioning it like a car antenna vertically. You should also try repositioning it by rotating it and /or changing its height. If you can, your best bet is an outdoor omnidirectional FM antenna.
 
Hey! Trying to pick up the coolest radio station in Wisconsin , 91.7 WMSE. I am able to bring it in on mono pretty well with a dipole antenna on a Pioneer TX-130, but I want it perfect!
Could I just strip the ends of the dipole and twist on some speaker wire effectively doubling the length of the thing? Or are there length/resistance/thickness considerations with antenna wire? Thanks!

A dipole is cut to a certain length to resonate on the desired frequency. Doubling its length will tune it to a lower frequency than 91.7 mhz, and may actually degrade reception. It will probably also affect the directional characteristics of the dipole.

Then again, indoor antennas are always subject to all kinds of external factors, and often a crapshoot. Making it longer may indeed give you better reception on a particular station, but it would be random luck.

I use about 40 feet of hookup wire on the baseboard around the perimeter of my room, and it works very well, but, again, it's just dumb luck.

Try re-positioning your dipole if you can. Rotate it. Hang it at different angles. Hang it vertically. Try it in an "L" configuration. See what happens.

Oh, and are you sure they are transmitting in stereo?
 
Unfortunately I am only renting this place now and am not sure I should go mounting an antenna on the outside of the house, although I recognize that would be ideal.

Yes they are transmitting in stereo,
try re-positioning your dipole if you can. Rotate it. Hang it at different angles. Hang it vertically. Try it in an "L" configuration. See what happens.
that's funny, I thought it had to be hung as a "T"
The whole crap shoot nature of this procedure drives me nuts! Sometimes it comes in great and other times with seemingly nothing changed it doesn't hardly work at all!
I'm sure I'm not the first.

is "hookup wire" any different than speaker wire? I see it comes in many guages is that important?
 
If you can get your hands on an old simple set of VHF TV rabbit ears, they may work a bit better for you. It's not that they are technically superior, it's that they may be easier to adjust physically so that they are positioned for the best reception. The FM broadcast band is just about the center of where they are designed for since it lies between channels 6 and 7.
 
. . .

is "hookup wire" any different than speaker wire? I see it comes in many guages is that important?

The size of the wire is not important for receiving. You can use the thinnest wire you can find, or the thickest. Thinner, of course, is less visible.

The problem with indoor antennas at that frequency is that almost any conductor around it - metal roof, filing cabinets, metal wall studs, house wiring, even people, can affect reception.

The dipole does not have to be mounted in "T" configuration. You can tinker as you please with the two arms. You can't hurt anything. You could also try it in "sloper" configuration - think of an arrow pointing up.

EDIT: Bruce beat me to it: Another suggestion would be a cheap set of rabbit ears. They are basically dipoles, but much easier to move around. Heck, you may find that one arm long, one arm short, works best.
 
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Thanks for the suggestions! Of course if I could just find a power cord that would fit my Parsec Arc powered antenna we wouldn't even need to be talking about this

Gonna give rabbit ears a shot
 
Thanks for the suggestions! Of course if I could just find a power cord that would fit my Parsec Arc powered antenna we wouldn't even need to be talking about this

Gonna give rabbit ears a shot

You have an amplified indoor antenna? Slap a cord on it and fire it up!

BTW, that's a pretty good station. It's going in my Foobar bookmarks.
 
The length of a FM dipole should be one meter long. You don't really want to lengthen the antenna but you can lengthen the lead to the receiver with the same kind of wire, usually 300 ohm twin lead. The antenna will be somewhat directional in the horizontal position. You might try positioning it like a car antenna vertically. You should also try repositioning it by rotating it and /or changing its height. If you can, your best bet is an outdoor omnidirectional FM antenna.

I have several commercially made dipole antennas that came with various tuners that I have. They are all about 63" which is not 1 meter.

Wayner
 
It should be hung in a "T".
The horizontal part should actually point toward the transmitter site of the station you're interested in.

In my experience, that amplified antenna is just going to give you louder, but still crappy, reception.
 
The length is based on the wavelength of the signal. One may easily make a dipole custom-tuned for a given station.

Here's the basics:
http://www.electronics-radio.com/articles/radio/antennas/dipole/fm-dipole-antenna.php
... and a calculator
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-radiofrequency.htm

Each leg of the dipole should be 1/4 wavelength. A generic, store-bought FM dipole is (probably!) tuned for FM mid-band. If you are only interested to 91.7 MHz, all you need to do is calculate the wavelength of 9.17 x 10^7 cycles per second and divide by 4! :)

91.7 MHz = 9.17 x 10^7 cycles/sec

(2.998 x 10^8 meters/sec) / (9.17 x 10^7 cycles/sec) = 3.27 meters

3.27 meters/4 = 0.8175 meters => 32.18 inches per leg of the dipole

Here's another calculator (geared more for hams than for FM listening,but the calculator's still applicable):

http://www.radiobrandy.com/dipole1.html


EDIT: Per the previous post -- the problem with amplifiers is that by definition they amplify both the signal and the noise; they do not improve the signal to noise ratio; it will take an antenna with more gain (and/or improved directionality) to improve the signal to noise ratio.

... and, yes, the "reception pattern" of a T-shaped dipole is a figure 8; the maximum sensitivity will be on either side of the stretched-out dipole; there'll be essentially no reception from the "ends" of the dipole.

PS The good old-fashioned TV "rabbit ear" antenna was a tuneable dipole and will work fine, too!

EDIT^2: that second on-line calculator returns a smaller value for the length (0.78 meters per leg); not sure why :p
 
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The actual length of the elements of a dipole antenna cut for 91.7 MHz is about + 30.6 inches.

This is because of a couple of technical factors called the velocity of propagation and the end effect of a dipole antenna.

Most online dipole antenna calculators will take this into account as does the one in the previous link.

Remember that a basic dipole is a 75 Ohm antenna. They are usually connected to unbalanced 75 Ohm coaxial cable and in general will benefit from a coaxial common mode RF choke. It can help insure the pattern integrity of the dipole antenna and help prevent any local electrical noise from being coupled into the antenna.

For best performance an antenna should be as high as possible and away from other conductors and sources of electrical noise.
 
aha --that was my mistake; thanks.
EDIT: Reflecting (no pun intended) on the previous post -- D'oh, I am a freakin' moron. I used the speed of light in a vacuum not in copper wire.
 
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It should be hung in a "T".
The horizontal part should actually point toward the transmitter site of the station you're interested in. ...

I think you meant the broad side should point to the transmitter, not the ends of the dipole.
 
BTW, that's a pretty good station. It's going in my Foobar bookmarks.
Yah, it's the best! Dr. Sushi's Free Jazz Barbeque tommorow morning and avant garde chamber music sunday nights. Static is a big no-no for those!

The actual length of the elements of a dipole antenna cut for 91.7 MHz is about + 30.6 inches.
Will look into this. I remember doing that and hearing you could multiply the number and I think I had like 91.8 inches of speaker wire. DIdn't work worth a damn, maybe I did it wrong, this was over a year ago


You have an amplified indoor antenna? Slap a cord on it and fire it up!
damn thing has a really funny adapter. going to bring it to an elctronics shop this week. gotta get some resolution here

THANKS!
 
I stopped at Lowe's on the way home tonight. I happened to spot a simple pair of rabbit ears for $10.
 
one of the sites sponsors sells fm antenna, indoor look like rabbit ears, any one try this guy?
 
Wouldn't it just be easier to stream it live over the web?

I do that with a local station I have a hard time getting over the air some times..
 
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