High End System Building on a Budget

This is a fun game, but I am too far removed from serious auditioning to know what specific components I would purchase.

I would be tempted to use the Parasound Halo 2.1 integrated as my amp, preamp, and DAC. That's around $2500.

Then I would have to find a decent CD transport. Maybe an Oppo 103 for $500.

Then about $100 for interconnects and speaker cables.

That would leave me $6900 for speakers. I'd have to go out and audition a lot of them. Something like a Maggie 3.7i at $6000.

That would get me to $9100'ish. Perhaps I'd pop for the Marantz SACD-15S2 and get just a touch of a discount from my audio dealer.

But this is really an exercise which would take me a few months to complete. And I know that I would go for used gear, to try to land at least $20K of gear for my $10K in cash.
 
And now for something completely different. :)

This will be a very personal flavored system – I'm taking the approach of putting together what I would do if replacing what I have, and after many years of listening to other approaches, I still like what I have – it just suits my palate better than anything else I can think of for <$10k.

I'm a huge vinyl and separates guy but based on what I've heard lately playing all digital as DSD128, I'll start by abandoning vinyl and with no need for a phono-stage, an integrated will work. I'll 'cook-the-books' a little to make things fit starting with the room which I feel is the most important component – I'll assume anyone dropping $10k on a system has the room sorted first, even though I know that's rarely the case.

For me the system revolves around the speakers (which must suit the room) and I'm sticking with something Altec 604 based. Maybe you get lucky and can pick up some Model-17s or raw drivers used but let's assume buying new from Great Plains; the 604-8H-III or my personal choice – 604E-Series II (alnico!). Crossovers from Great Plains might do it (haven't heard them) but leave them accessible so you can consider Markwarts which I know I like – a lot. Build (or go to a good cabinet maker) a wide front baffle (>24”) vented box that get's the driver up to ear height, Baltic-birch, lots of internal bracing, rabbeted construction, veneer to taste. Since we want these to reach as low as possible, figure internal volume around 9cu.ft. Drivers & crossovers $2k, professionally built cabinets $1k.

Speakers are up around 98db efficient and and I have to have SET so I think 845 – people say these sound like my favorite triode (the 45) with balls and I have to agree based on hearing a few. Since I won't have the $ for distributed bass, the extra power of an 845 over the 2A3s and 300Bs I use should make for better bass and killer dynamics on these Altecs. I loved what I heard from the Line Magnetic 218IA so I'll go with it.

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If I get patriotic enough to break the budget, I might choose the $6k Canadian made Coincident turbo 845SE which is supposed to be a little better than the 218IA (though a little too blingy for me).

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For wire I'll round-up some thin-ga cotton covered copper, maybe play with various braiding recipes for the speakers, a used pair of good copper ICs and a Wireworld USB cable – maybe $300 if I'm careful. I feel wire is important but find it's effect subtle at best and since we are on a budget, this is a great place to compromise.

Unless I can squeeze some more out of the above, I'm down to only $1700 for my DSD128 front-end so time to pave the way for future upgrades. I'd build a fast i7 Windows machine with some decent drive space, load up Jriver for ripping and file management, Hqplayer (the important piece!) to do up-scaling on-the-fly and hook into an iFi Micro DSD DAC. I'd then start ripping all my physical media into straight copies on the internal hard drive (with backups) – i.e. CDs rip to 16/44.1 wav. Everything get's played as DSD128 or DSD256.

That's my $10k but I'd chip away at that digital pretty fast. Assuming you have a wired/wireless network, I'd add a NAS for file storage, get that big player machine into another room (it's noisy!) and remote control it with the laptop or tablet that you already have. That long USB from the player to DAC would be a Corning optical (long run & galvanic isolation) or add a lean (wired) streamer PC running Windows and HQPlayer's NAA software – maybe another $1.5k.

I said Windows above because I'm getting ready for a DAC upgrade and I need the drivers to support DSD256 or even DSD512 conversion. I'll stick with the patriotic thing, sell the Micro and move up to a Canadian made exaSound – I've heard these playing DSD on several occasions and it might be the best digital I've ever heard. For $2k it would be the e12 or maybe the e22 at $3.5k. I'd figure on another $500 for a linear power supply for the DAC down the road too.

Aside from a wild-card play like a Lampizator DSD DAC (hmmm, haven't one of those yet...) I'd be set and ready to start planning for vinyl and distributed bass when that next big bonus comes in. :)
 

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@Billfort - I am impressed!

I don't know the Line Magnetics amp but I have heard my 604s driven by my CazTech 845 based amps. Knowing that sound, I am sure that your choices will not disappoint.

And thank you for playing 'Fantasy Audiophiles' (kind of like Fantasy Football only different. ;) ). :)
 
I gave the secret in your other thread: make friends with AV installers in wealthy neighborhoods and buy their take outs. My current system retailed over $100k yet cost about $11 K and change.

Really what system is this???:thmbsp:
 
I would probably choose a pair of Wharfedale W90's (one of the ported versions with cone tweeters), which are quite-large speakers, with either a Fisher tube setup of the 30wpc variety (probably a pre/power configuration) or a Marantz 8b combined with a modern tube preamp (Juicy Music Blueberry, I think is the name... The combination of that and the 8b powering W90's is supposed to be unbelievable... I'll be doing that myself as the money permits).

For vintage TOTL tube-era hi-fi, a pair of W90's and 30wpc of good Fisher tube power is the bee's kneez for people who dig the classics (music, I mean). One could always substitute a pair of those big 3-way omni-directional corner speakers (the early '60's version), which Gilbert Briggs considered the pinnacle of sound reproduction for Wharfedale. Either of the above mentioned speakers would work in this scenario, as would the Airedale model.

For a turntable, I would choose a refurbed Dual 1229, as I think it would be the best combination of sound versus ease of use (The 1019 can sound amazing, but it can also be an amazing pain in the ass. A 1229 with the above gear would be perfect. A very-high level of synergy there. Choose your vintage MM cart & stylus.

So, to recap the gear list...

1. Fisher tube pre/power rig (early '60's, say early *00C-era). Should be able to put together a sweet, restored, plug-and-play setup with your choice of vintage n.o.s. tubes for $2000 or less. Substitute a Marantz 8b/Juicy Music Blueberry combo for maybe $2500 (My next step, I think).

2. Wharfedale W90 speakers (The version with alnico cone-tweeters & mids and dual sand-filled panels would be my first choice... I paid $450 for mine and put another $100 into the oil caps)

3. Dual 1229 turntable (We'll pair it with a Shure M91ED and an original Shure Hi-Track stylus... You could get a refurbed one from a reputable Dual specialist for under $700, I think, and that's plug-and-play)


The above setup, especially with the upgraded amp/preamp option, would be a dragonslayer for the typical diehard Beatles/Stones/Hendrix/Zeppelin-type classic rock fan looking for that old "breath of life" sound , and it probably wouldn't run more than $5000, even with cables AND a good used high-end digital player and separate high-end DAC.

Honestly, with $10,000 to spend, I would put the rest into a solid-state system with some large floorstanders, like AR9's or something like that. Not sure though. Something that can dip low, has great mids, smooth, uber-silky highs, and is highly-musical. Then I would just build around those speakers, whatever makes them shine the brightest.
 
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@Gang-Twanger.....

Your love for Wharfedales (especially the W90) is truly contagious. I have a pair of The Radio People W70 speakers and another pair of W70s that need TLC. A pair of the W90 speakers is on my list to try. I have my eyes on a pair but shipping is a killer.

I certainly have the amps and preamps to get them sounding their best.

BUT....I need to wait until I get caught up on my other audio projects.

Audio ADD can be fun but it can get out of control. ;)
 
This is a great thread to have. The information will give anyone who is interested in kicking their audio system up a few notches. Price for audio will change from year to year, and this thread will continually be updated.

I suggest we make this thread a sticky.

This is what I managed to put together. Keep in mind, my listening room is 11ft wide x 14ft long.

I saved money where I could. The price in ( ) are retail

  • McIntosh MA6300 Integrated Amplifier Mint - $3400.00 ($4000.00)
  • Musical Fidelity M1 CLiC Network Audio Player - $899.00 (1999.00)
  • Martin Logan Source ElectroStat Speakers - $1598.00 ($2195.00)
  • Custom Made AR XA Turntable With Every Mod Available - $1000.00
  • Ortofon 2M Bronze MM Cartridge New - $440.00
  • Dynavector 10X5 MC Cartridge New - $550.00
  • PS Audio GCPH - $625.00 ($1000.00)
Grand Total - $8512.00

That leaves a balance of $1487.99 for TOTL interconnects, cables, and power cords.

This is an audio system I could certainly live with. :music:

Thank you TubeHiFiNut for creating this thread.
 
@4Play.

Thank you. I am pleased that you find this thread to be of value.

You have incredible components.

Please tell us more about your modified AR.
 
That leaves a balance of $1487.99 for TOTL interconnects, cables, and power cords.

That won't get you anywhere near TOTL, but it's sure a nice budget for cables for a system like we're talking about here. I was surprised when I added up the cables in my main system. But I'm glad I can feel like my cabling isn't bringing my system down.

- Woody
 
In the parallel thread (which unfortunately got polluted with nonsense) I recommended the following setup:

Speakers B&W 803D (first gen) - $5500.
Power amplifier Bryston 4B-SST - $1500
Preamplifier McIntosh C45 - $2500
Digital player Oppo 105 - $1300
Line level cables from Mogami - $300
Managed power strip - $30

Do NOT spend money on any accessories over $100.

Prices are for used electronics (other than player).

This will be a well balanced system, but do not forget about room treatment, which comes extra but not too expensive.
 
I have less than $500 in this system. Mostly plug and play with a little DIY.

I've always liked your systems. But I'm curious what YOU would do if you HAD to spend $10k on a system? Cmon, give it a shot!

- Woody
 
@4Play.

Thank you. I am pleased that you find this thread to be of value.

You have incredible components.

Please tell us more about your modified AR.

The system I put together is not my current system. I guess you could call it a dream system. As for the custom made AR,

This is the first XA Steve built for me.


Which led to him building this one.


Geting a custom made turntable from Steve will outperform most turntables on the market today. The beauty of it is, you don't have to spend thousands to get the beautiful sound we all crave.

That won't get you anywhere near TOTL, but it's sure a nice budget for cables for a system like we're talking about here. I was surprised when I added up the cables in my main system. But I'm glad I can feel like my cabling isn't bringing my system down.

- Woody

$1500 on interconnects, cables, and cords will buy some that are good enough for any system. Better yet, buy them from BJC and spend some of the extra money on a good power conditioner. That's one thing I forgot to add.
 
Nice AR tables!

What kind of arms did you use?

All of my ARs had Jelco. This is the best tonearm that will not hurt your wallet. I had one ES-1, Two XAs, and an XB being built. The XB will not have a Jelco as this table will be a retromod.
 
My current system comes pretty close to the goal.

McIntosh MR74
McIntosh C34V
McIntosh MC2205
Harman Kardon T60 w/AT440ML/OCC
Sony TC758
Oppo DV980H
Sonos Connect and Boost
Micromega MyDac
iFi Nano iDSD
Monitor Audio Silver 9i

That encompasses about 5500 dollars so far, which leaves me more than enough to finish restoring the two Craftsmen 500 mono triode strapped KT66 amps upstairs and a McIntosh MX110Z, which will be my next purchase. I suppose you could add a few hundred for cables. I will finish at well under 10K for the whole package.
 
I've always liked your systems. But I'm curious what YOU would do if you HAD to spend $10k on a system? Cmon, give it a shot!

- Woody

Ok Woody I'll take a crack at it.

Lowther PM5A's - $2500

Great Plains repro of Altec 416A for bass augmentation - $560

First Watt B5 active crossover - $1250

Yamamoto A-011 2a3 SET amp ( to power the Lowthers ) - $4000

Latest version of the Crown XL1500 ( to power the 416A woofers ) - $300

With $1390 left to spend on high quality Baltic birch plywood for the ( you guessed it ) open baffles :thmbsp:

lowther%20pm5.jpg
 
Ok Woody I'll take a crack at it.

Lowther PM5A's - $2500

Great Plains repro of Altec 416A for bass augmentation - $560

First Watt B5 active crossover - $1250

Yamamoto A-011 2a3 SET amp ( to power the Lowthers ) - $4000

Latest version of the Crown XL1500 ( to power the 416A woofers ) - $300

With $1390 left to spend on high quality Baltic birch plywood for the ( you guessed it ) open baffles :thmbsp:

Nice!!! That's a system I could get behind! I'm sure that would be quite amazing.

- Woody
 
Nice!!! That's a system I could get behind! I'm sure that would be quite amazing.

- Woody

Probably sounds nearly as good at getting in front of the system. Sorry, couldn't resist.

If you want to get behind a system, go with one that has dipole speakers set in the middle of the room or some with a sonic lens to fill the room like the Beveridge.
 
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