Kef LS50 vs Harbeth Monitor 30.1

I have to agree with RGA that Be tweeters are the metal tweeters of choice (yes I'm a NS1000 fanboy). I'm not an Audio Note fanboy, they look ugly as home made sin, I've never heard them and alas they don't have the look or the heart of Saturday night. Yet I really have enjoyed and learned from RGA's input.

As Avanti 1600 said about metallic tweeters " At times, the sound quality is stunning (The LS50 is an example of this). However there are times when the overall sound turns crashy and metallic" I understand both sides of the argument. I'm sure there are excellent alloy configurations out there that solve of these problems but there is still that metalica issue still seems to crepitate in. I have so many inherently bright and not so great recordings that we I still want to play and enjoy. I guess I want both worlds. I also enjoy all this debate and discussion to these unanswered question. Good posts.
Good summary.
The air motion tweeters found on the Goldenear Triton line (so far) seem like a great solution to the detail vs. metallic issue. Extremely smooth yet very detailed. More audition time needed but when I heard them on a number of occasions over the past two years, the tweeters were never the issue.
 
I must say, I've heard both the LS50 as well as the Reference 300. I love the Reference 300. Wasnt as open in the mids among a few minor things....no speakers perfect. But still the R300 is a great speaker. All Audio Note speakers I've heard seem to have a veil over the sound, sound colored and not transparent...then again, I love German speakers which are voiced much different.

The R300 are nice... But they are only $1800...

These puppies are what I was talking about... KEF Reference One... They've not been out too long. It takes the same basic design to the next level. The front baffle has a lossy pad between it and the cabinet to minimize vibrations from the drivers.. amongst several other things.. Just seems like a fairer comparison to the Harbeth since they are a more similar price... although I haven't read too many reviews about this series... I would love to own these... One day.

KEF_Reference_One.jpg
 
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Sorry...I miss spoke...not the R 300, but the Reference 3. These are just like the ones I heard. Same color. They are really a beutiful speaker....a little closed in through the mids, Sound stage wasnt as big as Ithought they would be. But they do sound great. Had a little over a 100 hours on them.

B5r5tFaIAAAzMjN.jpg
 
I will try Spendor d7 and harbeth shl5 tonight. The store dont have the monitor 30.1 on display.



wow RGA, you take basically the very few negative note that was ever said on amphion at gearslutz. how dishonest are you willing to go to try to prove a point?
I'm amazed by your dedication to reduce a speaker you have never heard.

didnt you want to take all the dozens of mastering engineer that has compared 30 monitors and ended with amphion? or the dozens of mastering engineer that has been in the business for 20 years that says the amphion are the best tool they ever used? there are so many praise of the new pro line from amphion.


the high end nearfield test of 90 pages, where the engineer, audiovisjion, has compared 30 high end studio monitors from focal, atc 25, geithain, PMC, Barefoot, ect. He compared atc 25 with amphion among many others.

the amphion is the speaker he chose with the big Geithain.

You can find at least 5 guys comparing ATC with amphion. seek for yourself, and many have preferred amphion.

so seriously, stop your non sense comparison between ion or helium with one18. the one18 is nothing like the budget line.
what a joke
 
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Sorry...I miss spoke...not the R 300, but the Reference 3. These are just like the ones I heard. Same color. They are really a beutiful speaker....a little closed in through the mids, Sound stage wasnt as big as Ithought they would be. But they do sound great. Had a little over a 100 hours on them.

Interesting. Were you comparing these to your Canton Vento 830.2 or other speakers at the show?
 
Sorry...I miss spoke...not the R 300, but the Reference 3. These are just like the ones I heard. Same color. They are really a beutiful speaker....a little closed in through the mids, Sound stage wasnt as big as Ithought they would be. But they do sound great. Had a little over a 100 hours on them.

B5r5tFaIAAAzMjN.jpg


Wow, those are slick looking speakers!

Carry on.
 
Sorry...I miss spoke...not the R 300, but the Reference 3. These are just like the ones I heard. Same color. They are really a beutiful speaker....a little closed in through the mids, Sound stage wasnt as big as Ithought they would be. But they do sound great. Had a little over a 100 hours on them.

B5r5tFaIAAAzMjN.jpg
Ive heard those kef r 300, the ls50, the harbeth c7, the SHL5 and spendor D7.

The kef r 300 has great bass with great control, but the mids and highs are not to my liking. they are slow with slow dynamic. the integration between the bass and mids are not perfect and it seems something is off.

the kef ls50: I find them very thin. great detail, but a metallic sound, definitely. I dont like them very much.

the harbeth c7: those were my favorite. wow. this sounds more like it. strong ressemblance from the AN J lx, but with beter detail and mids. the details are so specially integrated. the sound is very special imo. goosebump automatic and WOW. you want to listen to the music being played. sure, the bass is not as tight/ punchy as Id like, but I really like that sound. Right away, I wanted to listen to the music and follow the beat. toe tapping was immediate. very musical!

Spendor d7: very nice bass, but the mids were far it seemed, like in the background a bit or back of a tunel. voices sounded far. hard to explain. overall, I found them very boring and not engaging at all. I was very surprise and expected something much better. good clarity, but boring, underwhelming.

The SHL5: good, but we much prefered the compact 7. the shl5 feels very laid back, not dynamic enough and more relax. bass is even weaker then with compact 7. stronger, but serious bass bloat. I find they have no grip on the bass and I couldnt live with that. instrument separation and detailed seem better then compact 7, however.

so far, the compact 7 are very much to my liking. however, instrument separation is not perfect and they lack details. I wish I could have A-B'ed against my amphion. but so far, I do not think the compact 7 could replace the one18. the bass of the compact 7 is too loose but that mid is great. so musical, very sweet. Its a trade off.
I kind of hope that the 30.1 would make the bass even more tight.
 
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Murphy - sorry there bud but I actually have a job so I don't have time to read thousands of pages of a forum of people who don't use their real names and therefore have no real standing when it comes for me checking WHAT SPECIFICALLY they have recorded or mastered.

I don't know if you ever wen to university or graduated High School but when you make a CLAIM like a Ferrari is faster than a Lambo then what you do see is you post something that proves what you are saying. So you show a race or you provide technical evidence that car a is faster than car b.

And then you SOURCE the evidence with a link. This is how you construct points. So if you say that Person X says something then YOU (not me) goes to the website you copy and paste the quote and then you link the thread.

Here is an example.

I wanted to make the case to someone who argued that I was too in love with Audio Note and that I am rather overthetop and that good reviewers don't do that citing the superiority of Stereophile.

So I said well in fact Stereophile has an inner core of their elite writers - one of those is Art Dudley who bought the AN E's, and Peter Van Wellinswaard who was a technical writer for them ALSO owning them.

But the fellow was more enamored with Wes Philips who is a far more technical minded reviewer.

"Everything just sounded so right. I had goosebumps—and despite all evidence to the contrary, I'd have sworn my hair was standing on end,

Forget best sound of show, for sheer emotional delivery, timbral clarity, dynamic agility, and, yes, the highest fidelity, the Audio Note system may have been the best hi-fi I have ever heard. It was one of those magical moments that we audiophiles put up with all of the hassles for.

After the Audio Note demo. the rest was noise, so I quit on a winner. Not many people who come to Vegas can say that."

You see a REAL Quote from a real person and a quote from where this was stated as evidence that I am not just making stuff up. http://www.stereophile.com/ces2009/ongaku_means_ecstasy/index.html

Show me the guy on Gearslutz - use right click copy and then come here and post it and provide the link back --- WHY THE LINK? So that I know that you quoted the right thing in context.

I gave you one quote and you know where it was from from Gearslutz - I didn't say that everyone thought that - I looked at the thread that came up when I did the search. And noted that you said that the guy liked the Amphion One18 MORE than the ATC 150.

1) he was talking about the Two/18
2) nowhere does he say he liked it more.

Conclusion - you misrepresented what was said to try and sway me to believe that I am wrong and you are right. The problem is when you misrepresent (lie) about what the guy said and lie about the speaker he is talking about - then why should I take anything at your word? Photos bud. I do my best in the video age to take photos of what I audition because I have had people take me to task in the past. I pissed off McIntosh guys when I noted that resale value wasn't as great as they thought on a certain model number telling them that Soundhounds was selling a second hand model of it for $2200 (it retailed for $8,800 and was a CURRENT model). They actually bothered to phone Soundhounds who confirmed the price.

In the land of the internet anyone can say any crap about anything which is why the standards of evidence should be fairly high. It has nothing to do with opinion. I like to know all of the information when someone says Speaker A sucked in my room - that may be so but the blame may not be at attributable to the loudspeaker.


You bring up using "some guy" who is a recording engineer - first while this seems to be something people like to think is an automatic win - well person X is a recording engineer so he must be more expert than a reviewer or audiophile. Well no - record yourself singing into an MP3 player - put the recording onto your computer - then adjust your voice - add some auto-tune - burn the disc - guess what you just made a RECORDING and mastered it - you are an RE. So now you can use your fake internet name and tell people that "while I was recording I tested 10 loudspeakers and found that XYZ was the best sounding"

So the important things to make convincing arguments using external "experts" are as follows:

1) does the expert have a real name or an internet name
2) Can the expert's credentials be verified. He's an RE then what did he record - is he good? Do major labels hire him? Does he actually have a noted discography so that we may listen to the person's albums.
3) are they specifically relevant to the discussion.

Number 3 is kind of important because if the debate is between speaker A and B - and you uote that the expert liked speaker B better than 20 other speakers all of which are not speaker A then it's all completely irrelevant.

So if we go to Recording Engineers - well Steve Hoffman is using Audio Note for pleasure and helped run the Recent show in NewPort California

Steve Hoffman is a very well know mastering engineer and mastered for Eva Cassidy among others - Audio Note is some of the best he's ever heard - and he's heard a helluva lot of the years and the big recording studio loudspeakers. So when you put "some guy says" on some forum where he tested 30 speakers so what? Who is "the guy" and you kind of have to show us that he's the sort of expert we should take more seriously. And you can see Steve Hoffman's gear here. http://www.stevehoffman.info/gear.html

So we pit an internationally renowned Recording and Mastering engineer up as my side evidence with a link and you can find out what he has mastered at the top of the link including his resume here http://www.stevehoffman.info/resume.html

I listen to the guy who designs and builds cell phones. The guy who tests all the competing guys cell phones over what my buddy Larry who spent 5 minutes with 3 phones in bad lighting who declares Apple is the best because his favorite colour is white. I prefer to trust myself first but I will trust the experts when there is some consensus and their level of expertise.

Audio Note has also been moving to the recording studio industry in Europe and Russia - but so few Recording Studios are willing to output the cash on tube equipment where downtime is going to be more of an issue

But they've been there for awhile (See I just made a statement that they're in recording studios but you don't need to believe me or spend 2 weeks trying to find it because I provide the link - factually correct information with evidence. (which isn't to say I never get it wrong but most people know that I make the attempt the vast majority of the time).
http://www.chord.co.uk/blog/gearbox-records-not-your-average-record-label/

So now when someone comes on here - they can say ok Audio Note is in fact used in a studio and also a favorite of a big time famous mastering engineer and has reviewers "Other than the fanboy RGA" because RGA (Richard George Austen) actually linked me to all three places as 'evidence" and gee maybe if all those places and names are on board maybe there is a reason for RGA to be such a fanboy in the first place - and at least the guy isn't hiding he's a fanboy.

Lastly (whew) none of the above is meant to convince you of zilch with regards to telling you what to like - cause I've heard Audio Note sound "sucky" myself so that is neither here nor there.

The issue is trying to use the external expert to make your argument that your opinion is right and my opinion is wrong. I made the exact same mistake you're currently making. I made a thread many years ago on canuckaudiomart forum that is still the longest thread that forum has ever had (aside from the what are you listening to) threads. I brought in review after nauseating review and commentary and show reports to say "see these 20 people think it's great). Big fat hairy deal - A bose speaker won a blind level matched shootout in Hi-Fi Choice too and got a "Recommended" tag.

So go buy a loudspeaker - whatever you buy I am sure you will believe is the best loudspeaker known to man and better than anyone's advice to you on this forum. And since it's your money - your opinion is the only one that matters - but note that my opinion is the only one that matters to me. You pays the money you lives with your choice. And since most of the posters here have not heard the One18 why not ask the guy at Gearslutz to tell you which speaker will give you what you're after. He tested 30 as you say - so maybe listen to his second choice or third choice.

PS one of the Artists from Gearbox Records which I intend to order https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iaVhItBGlg
 
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Wow, talk about defending the speaker YOU think is the best taken to the extreme. Maybe after someone gives their impression of the sound of a certain piece of equipment they should follow with IMHO because that's all it is.

Way to take the high road buddy, class act all the way.
 
He's an Audio Note peddler, doesn't even try to disguise it. Shame, he also masquerades as a reviewer.
 
Well Art I don't. When I think something is clearly better than something else I am not going to recommend the "something else" that I fell is vastly inferior JUST to "pretend" or to make myself "SEEM" objective.

If yo can't understand why this is a good quality and not a bad quality then frankly I can't help you.

I stated these exact same opinions way way before I was a reviewer.

If people were intelligent enough to read my post above they would note that that post has nothing to do with the sound of the speakers or someones preference - it is entirely about constructing an argument - if the guys says in my room Amphion sounds better than the AN J/Reference 3a De Capo and Wilson Cub - that's the end of it - fine. But this poster on another forum has a track record.

As for Peddling - explain how? If I am the lone wolf in the industry that would be one thing - can you actually sit there and say that I am the only person that thinks this is an elite product line?

And other than the speakers what are things from them can anyone accuse me of "peddling" - How was I peddling AN in this thread other than to counter with my opposite opinion of his opinion.

I don't need to peddle AN - they have waiting lists of over a year on some items so they certainly don't need me.
 
Wow, talk about defending the speaker YOU think is the best taken to the extreme. Maybe after someone gives their impression of the sound of a certain piece of equipment they should follow with IMHO because that's all it is.

Way to take the high road buddy, class act all the way.

Nope - has nothing to do with the speaker. Guy is free to like whatever he wants to like - it's entirely about the way you go about it.

An audio system is not just about the loudspeaker - it is about the equipment and the room as well. I would have made the same points about other speakers he mentioned - Reference 3a for example - instead of linking Steve Hoffman - I would have linked UHF Magazine that has used Reference 3a for 2 decades as their reference system - or Steven Rochlin of enjoythemusic.com who uses a Reference 3a as one of his references as well. And Wilson - heck is there anything more raved about in American print press? Not very much. Chesky Records uses Wilson and ARC. Chesky is one of the very best classical recording studio labels.

The speaker has very little to do with the issue.
 
what are you talking about RGA? you are the dishonest folk who dont want to see all the amazing reception amphion has had. they are getting awards and such in the pro field, incredible peer reviews, and great review by magazines.
wtf are you trying to do here.


Audiovisjion, the OP of the most important and extensive speaker try out on gearslutz. he has tried all the speakers in his room, paid thousands of shipping to be able to provide the test. he has tried around 30 high end monitors of all the big companies. you can find the list easily. the amphion and the geithain was his final choice. he has tested PMC models, Barefoot, Geithain, ATC, sonic anima, quested, K&H, PSI, ECT. many model costing 3 times as much as amphion.
he finally ended with amphion and big 13k geithain.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/851143-high-end-nearfield-test.html


there is so many famous producer that has jumped on amphion pro line, the list would be quite long.
again, do some research about who is using amphion now in the studio and you will see. im sure you have time after posting a small novel.
 
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After reading some of this, and most up until the end, I would say this would be a good time to just drop the thread. No point as it has gotten a bit off the rails.

Like what you like, listen to what you like and leave it well enough there.
 
After reading some of this, and most up until the end, I would say this would be a good time to just drop the thread. No point as it has gotten a bit off the rails.

Like what you like, listen to what you like and leave it well enough there.

Agreed, I think the LS50 is an awesome speaker for the money, the Harbeth should be better as it costs quite a bit more. For the cash the LS50 does amazing things. Weird thing happened to me a few weeks ago I was listening to some music, I heard voices behind me and walked into the next room to see who it was, turned out it was dialogue between the songs coming out of the LS50 in front of me but I was convinced it was behind me. Never had that happen before.
 
Interesting. Were you comparing these to your Canton Vento 830.2 or other speakers at the show?


Canton does have a model that looks kinda like those. Or should I say those look like Cantons because they've had that look for years. The Chronos SLS 790 DC.
I didn't see the KEF's at a show, but have a dealer here in St.Louis. Canton sound is different than KEF's. And yes, the Cantons have a larger dispersion and are a very open midrange and transparent speaker, with one of the best custom tweeters made. Was I comparing them to the KEF's ? Naw not really. Just two different sound signatures....the KEF Reference 3 are a great speaker. At least to my ears
 
Well Art I don't. When I think something is clearly better than something else I am not going to recommend the "something else" that I fell is vastly inferior JUST to "pretend" or to make myself "SEEM" objective.

If yo can't understand why this is a good quality and not a bad quality then frankly I can't help you.

I stated these exact same opinions way way before I was a reviewer.

If people were intelligent enough to read my post above they would note that that post has nothing to do with the sound of the speakers or someones preference - it is entirely about constructing an argument - if the guys says in my room Amphion sounds better than the AN J/Reference 3a De Capo and Wilson Cub - that's the end of it - fine. But this poster on another forum has a track record.

As for Peddling - explain how? If I am the lone wolf in the industry that would be one thing - can you actually sit there and say that I am the only person that thinks this is an elite product line?

And other than the speakers what are things from them can anyone accuse me of "peddling" - How was I peddling AN in this thread other than to counter with my opposite opinion of his opinion.

I don't need to peddle AN - they have waiting lists of over a year on some items so they certainly don't need me.


RGA, man! When are you going to stop living in denial? It's not just on this board, but you are famous for being an Audio Note peddler on many boards! When you firstly came here, I warned others here you where a Audio Note peddler and fan boy, now you are proving me righteous. Wouldnt be so bad if you just receive the title as an Peddler, but you won't. Hey, I'm a Canton Peddler and glad of it. Don't make me bad or good, but a Canton lover. Wish I could put a pair in every room. But I don't rub it in every conversation. So stop living in Denial....you peddle Audio Note every place and ever audio forum you write on. Get with it man....come out the closet.
 
Peddler implies that one is profiting on the speaker or company is someone who makes money on it. I'll take fan boy no problem.

Peddler: someone who sells things in small amounts often by traveling to different places : a person who peddles something. : a person who sells illegal drugs.



If ArtK has some evidence that I make money by posting commentary on Audio Note it's his duty to prove that because what he is engaging is a something called "libel" for which in the United States people sue for. A fan boy is someone who is quite enthusiastic about a product/team/person.

A fanboy is a person considered to belong to one or more fandoms to a point of obsession.

I can see that term being applied to me - fair enough. You become a fan of things that make you a fan.

So Slippers-On - I don't think you actually want to be called a Peddler unless Canton pays you or gives you free Canton products to run around praising them - do they pay you or give you free products? If so you are a peddler if not you're a fanboy - as are mountains of Magnepan and panel fans or OB fans or somewhere on this page the guys who spend 200 pages on a $30 little transistor amp.

As a reviewer I get a discount on items (the same discounts from most makers incidentally). I recently bought the TT2/Arm1(V2)/IQ1 - I paid out of my own pocket over $3,000CAD for that set-up which was a display model - older - with previous iteration parts. There are a LOT of other companies that give reviewers 1-2 year long "loans" to reviewers for the nice free advertising that the reviewer owns the product. If I get an amp for FREE sure it sounds good for free but if I have to part with the dealer's asking price it means something. I have paid for all my audio products before and since becoming a reviewer and I have turned down more than once companies offering me "free" products for review and I refused reviewing them as well.

So it is offensive when you're called something you're not and so, Slippers On, you should take care before you are agreeable to be called a peddler (shill) "IF" you're not.
 
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Peddler implies that one is profiting on the speaker or company is someone who makes money on it. I'll take fan boy no problem.

Peddler: someone who sells things in small amounts often by traveling to different places : a person who peddles something. : a person who sells illegal drugs.



If ArtK has some evidence that I make money by posting commentary on Audio Note it's his duty to prove that because what he is engaging is a something called "libel" for which in the United States people sue for. A fan boy is someone who is quite enthusiastic about a product/team/person.

A fanboy is a person considered to belong to one or more fandoms to a point of obsession.

I can see that term being applied to me - fair enough. You become a fan of things that make you a fan.

So Slippers-On - I don't think you actually want to be called a Peddler unless Canton pays you or gives you free Canton products to run around praising them - do they pay you or give you free products? If so you are a peddler if not you're a fanboy - as are mountains of Magnepan and panel fans or OB fans or somewhere on this page the guys who spend 200 pages on a $30 little transistor amp.

As a reviewer I get a discount on items (the same discounts from most makers incidentally). I recently bought the TT2/Arm1(V2)/IQ1 - I paid out of my own pocket over $3,000CAD for that set-up which was a display model - older - with previous iteration parts. There are a LOT of other companies that give reviewers 1-2 year long "loans" to reviewers for the nice free advertising that the reviewer owns the product. If I get an amp for FREE sure it sounds good for free but if I have to part with the dealer's asking price it means something. I have paid for all my audio products before and since becoming a reviewer and I have turned down more than once companies offering me "free" products for review and I refused reviewing them as well.

So it is offensive when you're called something you're not and so, Slippers On, you should take care before you are agreeable to be called a peddler (shill) "IF" you're not.

Ahhhh, Richard the word "Peddler" also means "a person who tries to promote some cause, candidate, viewpoint, etc.." We simply mean, you are a big fan of the brand (fan boy), and you are a "herald" who will "promote" Audio Note every place and every place you go to the point of being overbearing, overwhelming, rudely arrogant while "peddling" Audio Note gear, because you feel its critically important to do so. Nothing more and nothing less. But in saying all that....don't mind us....its your right to be a peddler and fan boy, just as its our right to ignore you, not indulge or engage you, and its certainly our right to know you as a "Audio Note" Peddler" and "fan boy"...you were way back then.....years ago.....more than 10 years ago over at Audioreview, a few other audio forums in between over the years, and you still are today....but hey, carry on soldier, its your right. I aint mad at cha!

To answer you question about Canton giving me free stuff.

When I firstly got my Vento's a few years ago, to my fault, I blew the ceramic tweeters in them less than a month old. My fault so Canton wasn't obligated to replace them. I called up the USA distributor...told her what I had done and how much to replace them....she said $500 for the pair. I said "ouch". She said hold on, I said ok, she put me on hold, and I waited patiently, she came back, and I said yes, and she said we will gift them to you, and I said thank you Jesus! She said Canton has a ship come to America once a month and the last ship was last week, she said it would be next month, I said no problem, and about 3 weeks later I had brand new ceramic tweeters free of charge, and free shipping. I was already a fan boy....loved the voicing of German speakers and Canton and Tidal are my favorite, but now I'm a fan boy and a peddler....but not overbearing, overwhelming, rudely arrogant about it at all.

I think we all promote what we like, I see it all the time on audio boards....to some extent, we all are peddlers...but we do it in a modest, respectful sorta way. Heck, if you've seen my "Going Digital" thread, I peddled the heck out of iFI products....Sure Art promotes Harbeth..he loves their voicing....but he and I are not rubbing it in every chance we gets nor putting down the next mans gear as you are known to do, Richard. No ones perfect, and we all make mistakes, and when the mistake is made known, we learn from them. But its your right and duty to be respectful of others and how they feel about what they have as well....Its not your right to be rude in promoting whats yours while trashing whats theirs. No way....you don't get to be rude and trashy and put your gear high up on a pedestal... no sir, you don't get to do that....you don't get to peddle Audio Note and kick all others gear to the curb.

Ok...I'm done...I'm out. carry on.

_slippers-on.
 
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